17 Jun '09 02:20>1 edit
Originally posted by Conrau KCircular, no not at all. Then you have to read the definition again, and this time, read carefully, and you'll se no circularity. (You didn't read my posting did you? 🙂 )
Well, Christians do disagree about the interpretation of John 3:16 and the second definition is just plain circular. What are Christians? Those who identify under Christianity? And what is Christianity? The totality of Christians. Brilliant.
Originally posted by karoly aczelBut the Bible says that ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. So to say that Christians were perfect would be to make this theology a lie. In addition, if the Christians are ignoring the teachings of Christ, which I am sure they were when the did "bad" things, why then charge this to the message?
Yes it would be fair to say,
However i was just trying to get at the historical significance of Christianity.
In my book it doesn't matter how much good you've done if you've done bad as well. Sorry, like I said Christianity was a great learning tool...
Originally posted by whodey?
But the Bible says that ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. So to say that Christians were perfect would be to make this theology a lie. In addition, if the Christians are ignoring the teachings of Christ, which I am sure they were when the did "bad" things, why then charge this to the message?
Originally posted by FabianFnas[b]Circular, no not at all. Then you have to read the definition again, and this time, read carefully, and you'll se no circularity. (You didn't read my posting did you? [/b]
Circular, no not at all. Then you have to read the definition again, and this time, read carefully, and you'll se no circularity. (You didn't read my posting did you? 🙂 )
How can John 3:16 be disagreed upon? Have you even read the verse? That's one of the most basic statement of the entire bible, and you don't know about it? 🙂
Originally posted by Conrau KTake a look again, and again if needed. A doesn't need B, but B needs A. So the circle is broken. Not circular.
[b][b]Circular, no not at all. Then you have to read the definition again, and this time, read carefully, and you'll se no circularity. (You didn't read my posting did you? [/b]
Of course it is circular. You said, "Christianity is the collection of all christians." How am I supposed to know a Christian without first a definition of Christianity?
...[text shortened]... rse. I know the verse. I just acknowledge that there is major dispute about what it means.[/b]
Originally posted by FabianFnas[b]Take a look again, and again if needed. A doesn't need B, but B needs A. So the circle is broken. Not circular.[/b]
Take a look again, and again if needed. A doesn't need B, but B needs A. So the circle is broken. Not circular.
So you think it's a major dispute, but you don't know what the dispute is about. Or else you would have told me.
I don't know any better definition of what is a christian. Do you? Can you deliver one, or are you just complaining for fun? 🙂
Originally posted by Conrau Khttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_definition
[b][b]Take a look again, and again if needed. A doesn't need B, but B needs A. So the circle is broken. Not circular.[/b]
What are boggles? Boggles are anything with the quality of being Boggly. It is not very helpful when I do not know what a Boggle is.
[/b]
Originally posted by FabianFnasI understand what circular means. Why not you look at your original words. Hint: the term in question appears in its definition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_definition
Ok, there, read.
Then give me a better definition. You have one, I know, because if you don't then I have to assume that you are just complaing for the fun of it. 🙂
Originally posted by Conrau KOkay, let's see what I wrote:
I understand what circular means. Why not you look at your original words. Hint: the term in question appears in its definition.
But at least you now acknowledge that John 3:16 is not a good test of whether someone is a Christian, right?
Originally posted by karoly aczelFor example, you may bring up the Crusades or Spanish Inquisition as dark periods within Christiandom, however, if we study these events these actions are not based within scripture in terms of the example and teachings of Christ. For example, where exactly did Christ say to take up the sword and purge the holy land? Where exactly did he do something similar in his life, yet, these individuals took it upon themselves to do so in his name.
?
I don't know if you are making a good point or not////
I just...ARRRGH!!!
Maybe you could elucidate a bit further?...
(maybe you were replying to another point?)
Originally posted by FabianFnasSorry, I misunderstood your post earlier. I thought you were giving two definitions: that A and B were separate definitions. In which case, B was circular.
Okay, let's see what I wrote:
[b]One definition that collects all christians into the same religion might be:
I don't say that it's the ultimate definition, but it's the best one there is so far. If you don't have a betterone, then it's still the best one there is.
"A Christian is someone who believs in John 3:16."
This is a definition ...[text shortened]... f not, you really shouldn't complaing about it. Just not productive.[/b]
Originally posted by Conrau KApology accepted. No much harm done.
Sorry, I misunderstood your post earlier. I thought you were giving two definitions: that A and B were separate definitions. In which case, B was circular.
As for John 3:16, I don't see why this verse should be so definitive. For a Catholic or Orthodox Christian, the Scripture does not define a Christian but devotion, fidelity to Tradition and p ...[text shortened]... would be fruitful to call a particular denomination or church or sect the worst religion.
Originally posted by Conrau KFunny how these discussions always revolve around the 3 stunted middle eastern brothers. They all talk about "saving" but so far humanity has not been saved from the divisiveness, discord, and outright murder that their ideas inevitably promote. How many threads in this forum have been started just to bash one of these mental defectives? And still, every day on this god forsaken planet even the most blameless among us (children) are sacrificed on the alter of doctrinal purity. When this is pointed out to an adherent they either offer the justified homicide defense or "poor-mouth" that the particular murderers that yesterday they identified as "brothers" are no longer acting according to the teaching so the teaching itself is not flawed - ignoring the obvious point that a "teaching" is supposed to teach - if it fails at that purpose then the problem must lie with the teaching. A teaching that divides humanity into warring groups is a flawed teaching and will lead to murder. The evidence for this is literally all around us. Wake up and smell the coffee. The future of our children on this planet is at stake.
This is not a thread about 'the definition of a Christian'. It is about the worst religion.