To be a Christian....

Originally posted by galveston75
Again I ask. Did Jesus make any such comment, hint's or suggestions that his followers would be out on their own so to speak as many who say they are Christian do today?
Did he ever direct or tell his apostles to tell anyone in all the congregations not to be among the brotherhood that Jesus himself spoke on many occasions and to do whatever they thoug ollowing an organized teaching program that has to be done to teach the truths in the Bible.

an excellent post and rather difficult for those who have erroneously assumed,
primarily because of a lack of scriptural knowledge, that one does not need to be part
of an organisation for worship. No doubt they will resort to irrelevant arguments over
semantics, pedantry and assertions of dishonesty as they have done here and
throughout their posting history. Lets see if they can actually address the contents of
your post for once.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
an excellent post and rather difficult for those who have erroneously assumed,
primarily because of a lack of scriptural knowledge, that one does not need to be part
of an organisation for worship. No doubt they will resort to stupid arguments over
semantics, pedantry and assertions of dishonesty as they have done here and
throughout their posting history. Lets see if they can actually address the contents of a
post for once.

I agree with divegeester that a Christian can clearly be a Christian without being a member of a religious organization that has been set up by people who identify themselves as Christians or declare themselves to be some kind of leaders or an authority on Christianity. Your rather conspicuous inability to produce an unequivocal quote from the bible that indicates a particular religious organization that Christians should join. Such an omission would be a rather stark oversight by the authors of the bible if membership of a religious organization were a prerequisite of being a Christian.

Originally posted by FMF
I agree with divegeester that a Christian can clearly be a Christian without being a member of a religious organization that has been set up by people who identify themselves as Christians or declare themselves to be some kind of leaders or an authority on Christianity. Your rather conspicuous inability to produce an unequivocal quote from the bible that indicat ...[text shortened]... of the bible if membership of a religious organization were a prerequisite of being a Christian.

why dont you try addressing some of the rather relevant points that the Gman made,
with reference to Christ and certain Biblically established precedents, hmmm?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
why dont you try addressing some of the rather relevant points that the Gman made,
with reference to Christ and certain Biblically established precedents, hmmm?

Well I have. Quite clearly Christians are free to join religious organisations if they want to. They can consult each other; they can submit to other Christian's leadership and advice if they so wish; they can join congregations or move between congregations etc. Clearly. I don't think this is in dispute. galveston75's quotes seem to establish this, but they certainly don't [and nor did any of the quotes you offered] instruct Christians to join a religious organisation, on pain of 'not being a Christian' otherwise.

Originally posted by FMF
Asking a string of questions about whether Jesus ever told someone NOT to do something, and inferring that this meant that he was telling them they HAD to do it, is what is known as sophistry. Christians can interact with other people, with other Christians, and live a 'Christian life', without joining an organisation that has been set up by other people who identify themselves as Christians or claim to be an/the authority on Christianity.

So you say and you are welcome to your opinion, but the entire Bible as well as what Jesus comissioned while he was here on earth does not support that thought in any way.

Again I bring up just this one scripture that states the point of the "unity in belief" they would have. This is a requirement.
If ones do not have a base leadership and support just as was designed by Jesus with the early congregations from Jesus down to the apostles, down to the elders and then down to the members being directed by these in the lead, how could they possible be following the lead by Jesus and without it they would never progress and be taught directly from Jesus.
This is Jesus's design with the backing of his Father, not just a thought we came up with.

Originally posted by galveston75
So you say and you are welcome to your opinion, but the entire Bible as well as what Jesus comissioned while he was here on earth does not support that thought in any way.

Well, you say that, and yet you can't produce even one incisive quote. It just comes across as your interpretation. A purported "rule" based on a perceived prerequisite based on an assertion based on an interpretation of equivocal fragments from the bible. tenuous stuff if you ask me. But I am a little more interested in the question you have ignored:

I repeat. If - for the sake of argument - I were to accept that you sincerely believe that Christians are not Christians if they are not a member of "a religious organisation", let me clarify: are you saying that someone who believes in Jesus and in the Christian God and who bases his or her beliefs on the Christian bible, is still not a Christian unless they are a joined-up member of "a religious organisation" like the Roman Catholic Church or the United Church of Christ or the Anglican Church or the Unitarian Universalist Association, or something similar? Is that what you are saying

Originally posted by FMF
Well, you say that, and yet you can't produce even one incisive quote. It just comes across as your interpretation. A purported "rule" based on a perceived prerequisite based on an assertion based on an interpretation of equivocal fragments from the bible. tenuous stuff if you ask me. But I am a little more interested in the question you have ignored:

I repea ...[text shortened]... the Unitarian Universalist Association, or something similar? Is that what you are saying

Sorry I'm slow this morning and just added more to my last posting....

Originally posted by galveston75
Again I bring up just this one scripture that states the point of the "unity in belief" they would have. This is a requirement.

"Unity in belief" would be the unity created by a common belief in Jesus. To claim that it means a Christian has to be a member of a particular "religious organisation" is an enormous stretch. And to characterize it as a "requirement" is tenuous and subjective.

Originally posted by galveston75
If ones do not have a base leadership and support just as was designed by Jesus with the early congregations from Jesus down to the apostles, down to the elders and then down to the members being directed by these in the lead, how could they possible be following the lead by Jesus and without it they would never progress and be taught directly from Jesus.

"[without being members of an organisation] how could they possibly be following the lead by Jesus...?" You have the New Testament.

Originally posted by FMF
Well, you say that, and yet you can't produce even one incisive quote. It just comes across as your interpretation. A purported "rule" based on a perceived prerequisite based on an assertion based on an interpretation of equivocal fragments from the bible. tenuous stuff if you ask me. But I am a little more interested in the question you have ignored:

I repea ...[text shortened]... the Unitarian Universalist Association, or something similar? Is that what you are saying

With streaching this issue, no, one does not have to be a part of an organization or even a church to be a Christian. There are no doubt many people on the planet that are in circumstances that do not allow for them to be in touch with any such thing because of where they may live. If they have a good heart condition and love God, he will recognize that and no doubt remember that person.
But I'm referring to the mainstream people on the earth that call themselves Christian but do not really live up to what being a Christian means and that is to be Christlike and do as Christ did.
Again if one is not in tune with what Jesus told all Christians that followed him to do, are they really a Christian? How can they learn to be Christlike if they are not taught in a unified way, they way the Bible says it would have to be?

And no there is not the one scripture that your'e asking for that says "you have to be a memnber in some organization to be a Christian".
But one simply has to read the Bible to see that's the way God has worked all thru history with ones he dealt with and that also showed in the congregations Jesus designed.

Even the traditional churhes in the world have had some type of organization to teach even if the teachings are not correct. But the point is even they see the design of Jesus for this need.

Originally posted by galveston75
With streaching this issue, no, one does not have to be a part of an organization or even a church to be a Christian. [...] And no there is not the one scripture that your'e asking for that says "you have to be a memnber in some organization to be a Christian".

Ok, I see. Because robbie has said that Christians do have to be members of a "religious organisation". So you and he do not agree on this issue, which is interesting, I suppose.

Originally posted by FMF
"[without being members of an organisation] how could they possibly be following the lead by Jesus...?" You have the New Testament.

Exactly. We have that but by no means do all understand it. "How can they learn without someone to teach"?
You cannot learn and then teach without the direction coming from Jesus and down thru the progressive leadership in the congregations just as he described. It just doesn't pop into an individuals head directly from Jesus. Go back and read again the way this works in the scriptures I quoted.
Jesus teachings and instruction do not just fliter out to humans on a grand scale. He never said that it worked that way but clearly said it would come from the ones taking the lead of his congregations and we are to listen to their lead. Did the scriptures not say that?

Originally posted by FMF
Ok, I see. Because robbie [b]has said that Christians do have to be members of a "religious organisation". So you and he do not agree on this issue, which is interesting, I suppose.[/b]

Ok..read again what I said. We agree totally but there are always circumstances that God see's.
Would you condemn someone in China if they have learned about Jesus and now believe it in their heart but have no way to be a part of his organization? Come on....

Originally posted by galveston75
Exactly. We have that but by no means do all understand it. "How can they learn without someone to teach"?
You cannot learn and then teach without the direction coming from Jesus and down thru the progressive leadership in the congregations just as he described. It just doesn't pop into an individuals head directly from Jesus. Go back and read again th ...[text shortened]... ead of his congregations and we are to listen to their lead. Did the scriptures not say that?

Jesus' "direction" and "teaching" is in the New Testament. If you need a teacher then get one. If you need a fellow Christian to be your leader, then seek one out. Neither of these - the teacher or leader - is Jesus. Their teaching and leadership is them, it is theirs, and it is yours... if you want it. But it cannot be equated with Jesus Himself. Jesus' teachings are in the bible. No human on Earth right now has been singled out, designated or endorsed by Jesus. No human can take Jesus' place unless you personally want them to. Which is your prerogative, I suppose.

Originally posted by galveston75
Ok..read again what I said. We agree totally but there are always circumstances that God see's.

You and robbie do not "agree totally". You have made diametrically opposite statements on this thread.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
[some] have erroneously assumed, primarily because of a lack of scriptural knowledge, that one does not need to be part of an organisation for worship.

Originally posted by galveston75
With streaching this issue, no, one does not have to be a part of an organization or even a church to be a Christian.