Trinitarians: Does not believing the 'trinity' lead to damnation?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
God is Holy, and God is Spirit. His gift to His children is the gift of holy spirit. There is no third person. That is why every epistle begins with greetings from God and His Son Jesus Christ, never the Holy Spirit.
Furthermore, in the book of Revelations, it shows God on the throne, His Son seated with Him ruling, but no mention of holy spirit ruling ...[text shortened]... ..a good analogy would be a Swiss Army knife. The unit is the gift and it has several functions.

So you believe in the Duality of God instead of the Trinity of God?

Originally posted by RJHinds
So you believe in the Duality of God instead of the Trinity of God?

No, One God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, and His Son Jesus Christ is a separate being. Holy Spirit is just another name for God, I believe you can look at John 4:24, but not certain since I don't have my bible here. The KJV says God is Spirit not "a" spirit. And you should know by now that He is Holy.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
No, One God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, and His Son Jesus Christ is a separate being. Holy Spirit is just another name for God, I believe you can look at John 4:24, but not certain since I don't have my bible here. The KJV says God is Spirit not "a" spirit. And you should know by now that He is Holy.

Angels and a all created creatures that live in Heaven are spirit, so what? Satan the devil is spirit and his demons are spirit. So what does that mean?

Originally posted by RJHinds
But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession. And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles’ feet. But Peter said, [b]“Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? ...[text shortened]... ived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

(Acts 5:1-4 NKJV)[/b]

Not that you'll read this or get it, but here is about as simple as it gets:

“Power of the Most High”
The Scriptures make clear that the "holy spirit" is a force that God uses to accomplish his will. When the angel Gabriel announced to Mary that she would have a son even though she was a virgin, the angel told her: “Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you. For that reason also what is born will be called holy, God’s Son.” (Luke 1:35)
According to Gabriel’s words, there is a link between the holy spirit and the “power of the Most High.”
A similar idea appears elsewhere in the Bible. The prophet Micah said: “I myself have become full of power, with the spirit of Jehovah.” (Micah 3:8) Jesus promised his disciples: “You will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon you.” (Acts 1:8) And the apostle Paul spoke of “the power of holy spirit.”—Romans 15:13, 19.
So, what may we conclude from the foregoing? There is a close connection between the holy spirit and the power of God. The holy spirit is the means by which Jehovah exerts his power. Put simply, the holy spirit is God’s applied power, or his active force. And what a force that is! We cannot comprehend the power needed to create the entire universe.
Through the prophet Isaiah, Jehovah suggested that we reflect on the following: “Raise your eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one of them is missing.”—Isaiah 40:26.
Thus the Bible indicates that the universe in all its order and harmony exists thanks to the “dynamic energy,” or power, of Almighty God. Clearly, God’s active force is immense, and our own existence depends on it.

It is not a God or a third being of this Godhead. It does not think on it's own, does not make commands on it's own, in fact it is not capable of doing anything on it's own. It is God's power or force that he uses to do what he wants. Just as a human uses a muscle to move an object.

Originally posted by galveston75
Not that you'll read this or get it, but here is about as simple as it gets:

“Power of the Most High”
The Scriptures make clear that the "holy spirit" is a force that God uses to accomplish his will. When the angel Gabriel announced to Mary that she would have a son even though she was a virgin, the angel told her: “Ho ...[text shortened]... of Almighty God. Clearly, God’s active force is immense, and our own existence depends on it.

Exactly, well stated. Holy spirit is a force, unseen but sometimes there is evidence, like when tongues as of fire appeared over the disciples on the day of Pentecost in Acts. That was when holy spirit was first received without condition. In the Old Testament it was given conditionally...that is why King David cried out "Please do not take your holy spirit away from me" after he had sinned.
To say this is a person is preposterous.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Exactly, well stated. Holy spirit is a force, unseen but sometimes there is evidence, like when tongues as of fire appeared over the disciples on the day of Pentecost in Acts. That was when holy spirit was first received without condition. In the Old Testament it was given conditionally...that is why King David cried out "Please do not take your holy spirit away from me" after he had sinned.
To say this is a person is preposterous.

Thanks...

Originally posted by galveston75
Not that you'll read this or get it, but here is about as simple as it gets:

“Power of the Most High”
The Scriptures make clear that the "holy spirit" is a force that God uses to accomplish his will. When the angel Gabriel announced to Mary that she would have a son even though she was a virgin, the angel told her: “Ho force that he uses to do what he wants. Just as a human uses a muscle to move an object.

Like I said before, one can not lie to a force.

How can a force be like Jesus? Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit as one that will be sent from the Father like He was sent from the Father. Jesus said that when He comes He will be a helper to teach, guide, and bear witness. The Holy Spirit will be able to speak and hear and carry on a coverstaion with others. These personal qualities are not attributed to forces. Who ever heard of a force commanding somebody to do something like the Holy Spirit does?

Don't forget that persons can exhibit force and power too.

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy!

Originally posted by RJHinds
Like I said before, [b]one can not lie to a force.

How can a force be like Jesus? Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit as one that will be sent from the Father like He was sent from the Father. Jesus said that when He comes He will be a helper to teach, guide, and bear witness. The Holy Spirit will be able to speak and hear and carry on a coverstaion wi ...[text shortened]... et that persons can exhibit force and power too.

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy![/b]

No, but you can lie to the Holy Spirit...there is a difference when you see capital H and capitol S....but even that is not always accurate in the bible. In some places it is backwards..

WHAT is God’s holy spirit?

In its opening words, the Bible speaks of the holy spirit—also rendered “God’s active force”—as “moving to and fro over the surface of the waters.” (Genesis 1:2) In the account of Jesus’ baptism, while God is described as being in “the heavens,” the holy spirit appears “descending like a dove” upon Jesus. (Matthew 3:16, 17) Additionally, Jesus spoke of the holy spirit as a “helper.”—John 14:16.
These and other Bible passages have led some to conclude that the holy spirit is a person, just as God, Jesus, and the angels are individual spirit persons. In fact, for centuries some of the most influential religions of Christendom have attributed personality to the holy spirit. Despite this long-standing doctrine, many church members remain confused, and some even disagree with their religious leaders. For instance, according to a recent survey, 61 percent of those interviewed believe that God’s spirit is “a symbol of God’s presence or power but is not a living entity.”

What, though, does the Bible say?

An honest Bible reader cannot help but conclude that the holy spirit differs from official church descriptions of it as a person. Consider the following Bible accounts.
When Mary, the mother of Jesus, visited her cousin Elizabeth, the Bible says that the unborn child in Elizabeth’s womb leaped, “and Elizabeth was filled with holy spirit.” (Luke 1:41) Is it reasonable that a person would be “filled” with another person?
When John the Baptizer spoke to his disciples about Jesus as the one who would succeed him, John said: “I, for my part, baptize you with water . . . , but the one coming after me is stronger than I am, whose sandals I am not fit to take off. That one will baptize you people with holy spirit.” (Matthew 3:11) John could hardly have been referring to the holy spirit as a person when he spoke of baptizing people with it.
While visiting a Roman army officer and his family, the apostle Peter spoke of Jesus as having been anointed by God “with holy spirit and power.” (Acts 10:38) Shortly afterward, “the holy spirit fell upon” the army officer’s household. The account says that many were amazed “because the free gift of the holy spirit was being poured out also upon people of the nations.” (Acts 10:44, 45) Here again, the terms used are inconsistent with the idea of the holy spirit being a person.
It is not unusual for God’s Word to personify things that are not a person. These include wisdom, discernment, sin, death, and undeserved kindness. (Proverbs 8:1–9:6; Romans 5:14, 17, 21; 6:12) Jesus himself said that “wisdom is proved righteous by all its children,” or its good results. (Luke 7:35) Clearly, wisdom is not a person that has literal children! Likewise, the holy spirit is not a person simply because in some instances it is personified.

What Is the Holy Spirit?
In the Bible, God’s holy spirit is identified as God’s power in action. Hence, an accurate translation of the Bible’s Hebrew text refers to God’s spirit as “God’s active force.” (Genesis 1:2) This concept is well supported throughout the Bible.—Micah 3:8; Luke 1:35; Acts 10:38.
Contrary to popular belief, God is not present everywhere at all times. Rather, he dwells in the spirit realm, in an “established place of dwelling,” or residence. (1 Kings 8:39; 2 Chronicles 6:39) The Scriptures also refer to a specific place where God lives and has his “throne.” (1 Kings 22:19; Isaiah 6:1; Daniel 7:9; Revelation 4:1-3) However, from his “established place of dwelling,” he can use his active force to reach out into every corner of both the spirit realm and the physical realm.—Psalm 139:7.
Back in 1879, Bible scholar Charles L. Ives aptly illustrated God’s ability to exercise his power from a fixed location. He wrote: “For example, we say, ‘Open the shutters, and let the sun come into the room.’ We mean, not the real, bodily sun, but the solar ray, that which proceeds from the sun.” Similarly, God has no need to travel to the locations where he intends to use his active force. He simply employs his holy spirit, which can reach to the extremities of creation. Seeing the holy spirit for what it is—God’s powerful active force—can give you confidence that Jehovah will fulfill his promises.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Like I said before, [b]one can not lie to a force.

How can a force be like Jesus? Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit as one that will be sent from the Father like He was sent from the Father. Jesus said that when He comes He will be a helper to teach, guide, and bear witness. The Holy Spirit will be able to speak and hear and carry on a coverstaion wi et that persons can exhibit force and power too.

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy![/b]

Personification does not prove personality.

It is true that Jesus spoke of the holy spirit as a “helper” and spoke of such helper as ‘teaching,’ ‘bearing witness,’ ‘giving evidence,’ ‘guiding,’ ‘speaking,’ ‘hearing,’ and ‘receiving.’ In so doing, the original Greek shows Jesus at times applying the personal pronoun “he” to that “helper” (paraclete). (Compare Joh 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:7-15.) However, it is not unusual in the Scriptures for something that is not actually a person to be personalized or personified. Wisdom is personified in the book of Proverbs (1:20-33; 8:1-36); and feminine pronominal forms are used of it in the original Hebrew, as also in many English translations. (KJ, RS, JP, AT) Wisdom is also personified at Matthew 11:19 and Luke 7:35, where it is depicted as having both “works” and “children.” The apostle Paul personalized sin and death and also undeserved kindness as “kings.” (Ro 5:14, 17, 21; 6:12) He speaks of sin as “receiving an inducement,” ‘working out covetousness,’ ‘seducing,’ and ‘killing.’ (Ro 7:8-11) Yet it is obvious that Paul did not mean that sin was actually a person.
So, likewise with John’s account of Jesus’ words regarding the holy spirit, his remarks must be taken in context. Jesus personalized the holy spirit when speaking of that spirit as a “helper” (which in Greek is the masculine substantive pa·rakle·tos). Properly, therefore, John presents Jesus’ words as referring to that “helper” aspect of the spirit with masculine personal pronouns. On the other hand, in the same context, when the Greek pneuma is used, John employs a neuter pronoun to refer to the holy spirit, pneuma itself being neuter. Hence, we have in John’s use of the masculine personal pronoun in association with pa·rakle·tos an example of conformity to grammatical rules, not an expression of doctrine.—Joh 14:16, 17; 16:7, 8.

Lacks personal identification.

Since God himself is a Spirit and is holy and since all his faithful angelic sons are spirits and are holy, it is evident that if the “holy spirit” were a person, there should reasonably be given some means in the Scriptures to distinguish and identify such spirit person from all these other ‘holy spirits.’ It would be expected that, at the very least, the definite article would be used with it in all cases where it is not called “God’s holy spirit” or is not modified by some similar expression. This would at least distinguish it as THE Holy Spirit. But, on the contrary, in a large number of cases the expression “holy spirit” appears in the original Greek without the article, thus indicating its lack of personality.—Compare Ac 6:3, 5; 7:55; 8:15, 17, 19; 9:17; 11:24; 13:9, 52; 19:2; Ro 9:1; 14:17; 15:13, 16, 19; 1Co 12:3; Heb 2:4; 6:4; 2Pe 1:21; Jude 20, Int and other interlinear translations.

In addition, if one looks at the epistles, all the intro's are as such...
Grace and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ....
no mention of holy spirit which would be rude...don't you think RJ?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
In addition, if one looks at the epistles, all the intro's are as such...
Grace and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ....
no mention of holy spirit which would be rude...don't you think RJ?

You must really think I am rude as a Christian then. But to each his own. I haven't checked all of Paul's letters to see how he started his letters. However, the first one I did check was his letter to the Romans and I see that he does mention the Holy Spirit there. Paul refers to the Holy Spirit as "the Spirit of holiness" in his introduction in that letter.

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!

Originally posted by RJHinds
You must really think I am rude as a Christian then. But to each his own. I haven't checked all of Paul's letters to see how he started his letters. However, the first one I did check was his letter to the Romans and I see that he does mention the Holy Spirit there. Paul refers to the Holy Spirit as "the Spirit of holiness" in his introduction in that letter.

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!

I didn't say you are rude, I said the holy spirit, 3rd person is rude if you read the epistles.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I didn't say you are rude, I said the holy spirit, 3rd person is rude if you read the epistles.

Maybe He is supposed to be rude, who knows? 😏