Trinitarians: Does not believing the 'trinity' lead to damnation?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Do you believe in the three Ecumenical - Universal Creeds of the Christian Church - The Apostles' Creed, The Nicene Creed, The Athanasian Creed???

Or do you pick and choose what you wish to believe by leaning to your own understanding???

http://bookofconcord.org/creeds.php

Yes, I do believe in the Apostles' Creed and even the Nicene Creed. I also agree with the first half of the Athanasian Creed, but I have never really believed in the anathema aspects of the Athanasian Creed. I find them exceedingly non-Christlike. I do not think non-trinitarians are going to hell, that is absurd. I do, however, believe that they will be brought back into the fold after the Resurrection. The Athanasian Creed was an attempt to separate the Arians of the time and to fully excommunicate them, or at least to threaten them with such.

Or do you pick and choose what you wish to believe by leaning to your own understanding???

Yes, shouldn't everybody?

Originally posted by galveston75
But no, it never showed up until the 4th century and then it was forced into the churches teachings.

Not entirely truthful.

By the 4th century, the reason it was made canon by the First Council of Nicaea was because it was the majority opinion of the majority of Christian churches at the time. The Arian movement was a small minority in the church. So it is patently untrue that "it never showed up until the 4th century". It was already considered as true by most Christian churches at that time.

Originally posted by galveston75
One should believe in the Bible "first" which never mentions a trinity of any kind. That is where every Christian should start with the foundations of the truths in it. Then when one is confronted with other beliefs and doctrines, it should be deeply scrutinized to see if it completely agrees with the Bible's teachings.
Just (((((((( 1 )))))))) thing wrong with it, and it's the leaven the Bible talks of not allowing into your beliefs.

Do you believe in the "Rapture"?

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
mark 12;28-
[quote]
One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart ...[text shortened]... nd the trinitarians still haven't found the trinity anywhere in the bible.

It was not for that man to know the secrets of the Kingdom of God. He saved that knowledge for His trusty disciples. He told them to go and teach what He had taught them and baptize in the name of the One God, the father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. That is why we know about the Triune God because it has been passed down by the Saints.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Yes, I do believe in the Apostles' Creed and even the Nicene Creed. I also agree with the first half of the Athanasian Creed, but I have never really believed in the anathema aspects of the Athanasian Creed. I find them exceedingly non-Christlike. I do not think non-trinitarians are going to hell, that is absurd. I do, however, believe that they will be ...[text shortened]... t you wish to believe by leaning to your own understanding???[/quote]Yes, shouldn't everybody?

So are you claiming to be wiser in the knowledge of God than the Church Fathers who established these creeds? I beleve Jesus gave the authority to the Church that Peter established to bind and loosen with these creeds.

He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.”

(Matthew 16:15-19 NASB)

Trust in the Lord with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding.
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He will make your paths straight.
Do not be wise in your own eyes;
Fear the Lord and turn away from evil.

(Proverbs 3:5-7 NASB)

Originally posted by Suzianne
Not entirely truthful.

By the 4th century, the reason it was made canon by the First Council of Nicaea was because it was the majority opinion of the majority of Christian churches at the time. The Arian movement was a small minority in the church. So it is patently untrue that "it never showed up until the 4th century". It was already considered as true by most Christian churches at that time.

This Arian movement was resurrected by the Watchtower Society. They have basically the same belief about Jesus. It was declared a heresy back then by the Church and it is still a heresy today. This was part of the Church's binding and loosening authority. The JWs can not continue to believe that way and be saved.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Okay, so does that mean you respect me the most for being a trinitarian?

No, my post has nothing to do with you or trinitarianism.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
mark 12;28-
[quote]
One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart ...[text shortened]... nd the trinitarians still haven't found the trinity anywhere in the bible.

Well said.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Vis: if you don't believe the trinitarian doctrine you cannot be a Christian

I don't see anyone jumping in to join you on this RJHinds.

Originally posted by divegeester
I don't see anyone jumping in to join you on this RJHinds.

Maybe they are thinking of those that are a Christian in name only.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Maybe they are thinking of those that are a Christian in name only.

Maybe they are thinking you are a right-wing American religious nut-job.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Do you believe in the "Rapture"?

No not in the sence that you do. Remember that word is also not in the Bible? But the taking up so to speak is not for all who are Christians. Again this is reserved only for the 144,000 that are taken up in spirit form to heaven immediatly after their death. This is also where the term "being born again" comes in. They are reborn to a new spiritual life.

Originally posted by RJHinds
It was not for that man to know the secrets of the Kingdom of God. He saved that knowledge for His trusty disciples. He told them to go and teach what He had taught them and baptize in the name of the One God, the father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. That is why we know about the Triune God because it has been passed down by the Saints.

no, you know about it because it was a church dogma that was taught to you and the church dogma of the trinity was invented over time and voted on by a close margin under the watchful eye of a pagan emperor.

it does not exist in the bible or in any of christ's teachings.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Not entirely truthful.

By the 4th century, the reason it was made canon by the First Council of Nicaea was because it was the majority opinion of the majority of Christian churches at the time. The Arian movement was a small minority in the church. So it is patently untrue that "it never showed up until the 4th century". It was already considered as true by most Christian churches at that time.

Well yes you are right as it had been around before it became a doctrine. And even going back farther it had been around sence Babylon. So it's influance had been around for centuries and in different forms depending on which society had it.
And Jesus and his apostles knew this about the many beliefs and customs that all the nations around the Jews practiced and this is why he gave those warnings that after he would be gone, that many of these beliefs would filter into the congregations and would be wrongly accepted.

Mark 13:22-23
Good News Translation (GNT)

22 For false Messiahs and false prophets will appear. They will perform miracles and wonders in order to deceive even "God's chosen people" ( 144,000 ), if possible. 23 Be on your guard! I have told you everything ahead of time.
Italics mine.....



Acts 20:28-30
Good News Translation (GNT)

28 So keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock which the Holy Spirit has placed in your care. Be shepherds of the church of God,[a] which he made his own through the blood of his Son.[b] 29 I know that after I leave, fierce wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock. 30 The time will come when some men from your own group will tell lies to lead the believers away after them.



2 Timothy 4:3-5
Good News Translation (GNT)

3 The time will come when people will not listen to "sound doctrine", but will follow their own desires and will collect for themselves more and more teachers who will tell them what they are itching to hear. 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give their attention to legends. 5 But you must keep control of yourself in all circumstances; endure suffering, do the work of a preacher of the Good News, and perform your whole duty as a servant of God.


1 John 4:1
Good News Translation (GNT)

The True Spirit and the False Spirit
4 My dear friends, do not believe all who claim to have the Spirit, but "test them" to find out if the spirit they have comes from God. For many false prophets have gone out everywhere.


There are of course other scriptures that confirm this also. But the point about the trinity and actually many other customs that were never believed or practiced by these early Christians, all became a part of the christian church around the 4th century.
Jesus and his apostles gave these real warnings for a reason and they knew the power of satan and the influance he does have on religious beliefs.
So if one were to really do a deep reseach of what the early Christians believed and did in their daily religious life's and how they worshipped God and the things they believed and then compared that to the way the church began to worship and the new doctrines that were accepted, that in truth did not exist before within their beliefs, these are the things Jesus and the apostles gave warnings about.
They did not express this as being tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of years away but it was expressed with a clear ergency that it would happen soon after they were gone. And exactly what they said would happen, happened.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
no, you know about it because it was a church dogma that was taught to you and the church dogma of the trinity was invented over time and voted on by a close margin under the watchful eye of a pagan emperor.

it does not exist in the bible or in any of christ's teachings.

Christ was the one that revealed the true essence or nature of God in the persons of the Father, the Son. and the Holy Spirit.