Trinity Is Doublethink

Originally posted by Conrau K
Well, if you interpret it literally, they are Jews from the original twelve tribes of Israel (Rev. 7:5) and all male virgins (Rev. 14: 1-5). Of course, a literal translation is ridiculous. It would mean that Peter (not a virgin), the Blessed Mother (not a male), and Charles Taze Russell (not a Jew) could not be in heaven. Although the last one is not so absurd unless you are a JW.

The point is that no human one the earth earns or decides he is going to heaven and to be a part of the 144,000. This is a decision that God makes.

" God foreordained another development in the outworking of his purpose. This is indicated by what Paul wrote to the Ephesians, namely that God will “gather all things together again in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth.” Then, with reference to “the things in the heavens,” that is, those who are chosen as heirs with Christ, Paul explained: “We were foreordained according to the purpose of him who operates all things according to the way his will counsels.” (Ephesians 1:10, 11) Yes, Jehovah determined ahead of time that a limited number of humans would make up a secondary part of the seed of God’s woman and share with Christ in dispensing the benefits of the ransom. (Romans 8:28-30) The apostle Peter refers to these as “a holy nation.” (1 Peter 2:9) The apostle John had the privilege of learning in a vision the number of those who would become Christ’s joint heirs—144,000. (Revelation 7:4-8; 14:1, 3) United with Christ as King, they serve “for the praise of [God’s] glory.”—Ephesians 1:12-14.
12 The foreordination of the 144,000 does not mean that certain individuals were predestined to serve God faithfully in this way. Indeed, the admonition in the Christian Greek Scriptures was written primarily to guide and strengthen anointed ones to maintain integrity and keep themselves worthy of their heavenly calling. (Philippians 2:12; 2 Thessalonians 1:5, 11; 2 Peter 1:10, 11) Jehovah knows in advance that 144,000 individuals will qualify to serve his purpose. Who they prove to be depends on how those invited individually choose to live their life, a decision that each one of them must make personally.—Matthew 24:13."

Originally posted by galveston75
The point is that no human one the earth earns or decides he is going to heaven and to be a part of the 144,000. This is a decision that God makes.

" God foreordained another development in the outworking of his purpose. This is indicated by what Paul wrote to the Ephesians, namely that God will “gather all things together again in the Christ, the thi ...[text shortened]... ose to live their life, a decision that each one of them must make personally.—Matthew 24:13."

So... what you're saying then.... is that god doesn't know who the 144,000 will be?

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
So... what you're saying then.... is that god doesn't know who the 144,000 will be?

He does now but no not before Jesus came to earth. If you really look at the Old Testiment there is never any mention of a prospect of any human going to heaven after death. All the ones of old always believed in being resurrected one day back here on earth. A heavenly prospect was someting new that Jesus explained and taught to those early Christians.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
biggest spirituality fail ever!

Paul speaks of a Jew as being, not a literal Jew, but one with a 'circumcision of the heart', he qualifies this by making the statement, 'spiritual Israel', Peter himself, states to both Greeks and Jews, that they were to be a holy nation, to declare abroad the excellencies of the one who called them forth. Now p ...[text shortened]... the forum floor, in a decrepit and pathetic state, stamped with large red letters, FAILED!

biggest spirituality fail ever!

Actually, I believe you have failed in basic literacy comprehension. I quite explicitly said 'If we were to interpret it literally'. Of course, you have not disputed the literal interpretations of the 144,000 but rather suggested a non-literal interpretation. In terms of basic relevance, you have scored a zero.

Originally posted by galveston75
The point is that no human one the earth earns or decides he is going to heaven and to be a part of the 144,000. This is a decision that God makes.

" God foreordained another development in the outworking of his purpose. This is indicated by what Paul wrote to the Ephesians, namely that God will “gather all things together again in the Christ, the thi ...[text shortened]... ose to live their life, a decision that each one of them must make personally.—Matthew 24:13."

I do not see how the number of saved can be limited to 144, 000. The 144, 000 correspond to the tribes of Israel. Following them, however, is a crowd of men, of all nations, who cannot be counted. They adore God (v. 12), are washed by the blood of the lamb (v. 14), and will suffer no tribulation (v. 16) but rather receive the consolation of God (v. 17). As I see it, the two groups represents the two covenants of salvation: the first group being the Jewish saints who abided by the Mosaic covenant, the second being the yet unnumbered Christian saints from the various Gentile nations.

Originally posted by Conrau K
[b]biggest spirituality fail ever!

Actually, I believe you have failed in basic literacy comprehension. I quite explicitly said 'If we were to interpret it literally'. Of course, you have not disputed the literal interpretations of the 144,000 but rather suggested a non-literal interpretation. In terms of basic relevance, you have scored a zero.[/b]

your right, i tend to read your posts with my eyes squinting as one does when being exposed to very bright light, with a sense of impending danger, that a fist shall reach our from the monitor and grab me by the throat and pull me into a downwardly spirling vortex, to the bottom of the sea, into a strange world of literati, who live in houses made of books and communicate in speech bubbles.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
your right, i tend to read your posts with my eyes squinting as one does when being exposed to very bright light, with a sense of impending danger, that a fist shall reach our from the monitor and grab me by the throat and pull me into a downwardly spirling vortex, to the bottom of the sea, into a strange world of literati, who live in houses made of books and communicate in speech bubbles.

I can't imagine how my writing could be so inscrutable. My very first words were 'If we were to interpret this literally...". It is hard to conceive that you could misunderstand the first words yet grasp all the rest.

it was my eyes, when they squint, i failed to discern the full import of the text 🙂