Spirituality
02 Jun 10
14 Jun 10
Originally posted by FabianFnasThe scriptures speak for themselves or did you even read them?
I say, in lack of you enlightening me, that the fellow who wrote the text is a known pedophile and a child molestor. I've read it, but I don't reveal my source.
Is the text he wrote still eternal truth?
14 Jun 10
3 edits
Originally posted by galveston75============================
This expression translates Yehwah′ Sham′mah, applied to the city seen by the prophet Ezekiel in his vision recorded in chapters 40 through 48. (Eze 48:35) The visionary city is depicted as foursquare (4,500 long cubits to a side [2,331 m; 7,650 ft]) and as having 12 gates, each bearing the name of one of the tribes of Israel. (Eze 48:15, 16, place, people and situation in a strong sence. It has nothing to do with a trinity concept....
This is refering to Jehovah's attention and protection being on this place, people and situation in a strong sence. It has nothing to do with a trinity concept....
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Zechariah 2:8-11 does have to do with the mysterious triune nature of God. And while your excursion into Ezekiel is interesting it has no effect on God as both the Sender and the One sent in that passage.
The phrase " ... thus says Jehovah of hosts" or something close to it is found many times throughout the book of Zechariah. I once double checked every single instance of it. Overwhelmingly, what follows or is associated with it is the speaking of Jehovah God:
Zech. 1:3, 4, 14, 16, 17, 2:5, 6a, 6b, 8, 10, 3:2, 7, 9, 10, 4:6, 6b, 5:4,
6:9, 12, 7:4, 8, 9, 13, 8:1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 9, 11, 14, 18, 19, 20, 23, 9:1, 10:12,
11:4, 13, 15, 12:1, 4, 13:7
Jehovah God is seen as the Speaker in all these passages. And in chapter 2 it is clear that Jehovah God also says that the people will know that He has been sent by Jehovah of hosts.
Appeal to the gates and dimensions of Jerusalem in Ezekiel does not change this. And in Ezekiel the glory of God has the appearance of a man anyway in Ezek. 1:26:
"And above the expanse that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, like the appearance of a sapphire stone; and upon the likeness of the throne was One in appearnace like a MAN, above it." (Ezek. 1:26 my emphasis)
So Zechariah is a glimpse of the triune nature of God. And Ezekiel offers a glimps of the incarnation of Jehovah God as a man.
15 Jun 10
Originally posted by jaywillWell it makes no sence that he sends himself. Strange thought there.
[b]============================
This is refering to Jehovah's attention and protection being on this place, people and situation in a strong sence. It has nothing to do with a trinity concept....
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Zechariah 2:8-11 does have to do with the mysterious triune nature of God. And while your excursion into Ez ...[text shortened]... iune nature of God. And Ezekiel offers a glimps of the incarnation of Jehovah God as a man.[/b]
And if you notice in the scriptures your quoting it says he has the "appearance of a man". It does not say there or anywhere in the Bible he is a man or suggest he ever was..
God in many scriptures is said to have the attributes of a man but he is a spirit and in reality has no features of man. These are used to help humans relate to God in ways we can understand. If the actual descriptiuon of God's being were explained to us, we'd have no idea what we were being told.
And point blank if God was a triune God of some type, someones vision of God would have been seen and explained to us in the Bible. But nothing of the sort exist. Every expression of God in a vision is of " 1 " individual, not 3.
15 Jun 10
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75========================================
Well it makes no sence that he sends himself. Strange thought there.
And if you notice in the scriptures your quoting it says he has the "appearance of a man". It does not say there or anywhere in the Bible he is a man or suggest he ever was..
God in many scriptures is said to have the attributes of a man but he is a spirit and in reality has no feat hing of the sort exist. Every expression of God in a vision is of " 1 " individual, not 3.
Well it makes no sence that he sends himself. Strange thought there.
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I choose to be governed by what it says first, because I revere God's word. I choose not to let how "strange" it is to be the main ingredient of my attitude toward it.
Are you going to let how "strange" it is govern the openess of your heart ?
Suppose Abraham had not followed God because he deemed that some utterance was too "strange" for him ?
I learned to say Amen to whatever the Bible says and not let how stange something is dictate my willingness to open my heart to its utterance.
15 Jun 10
Originally posted by menace71Yes Manfred, it would seem a lot of arguements that are pre/anti trinity,(for example), are not really going to do much for the practicle outcomes of the world problems we need to address right now.
Maybe the concept of the trinity is not so important anyway. You still have to obey Jesus and Honor the father and be filled by the spirit. Maybe the intellectual understanding of the concept does not matter so much? Jesus never says "To be a christian you must believe in the trinity" The argument goes around and around.
Just thoughts
Manny
Lets try to focus our energies on religous/spiritual problems that actually make a difference in the world, rather than all this ego-posturing.
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15 Jun 10
Ok then, I have a question:
how is looking at the trinity as ego-posturing????
God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit knows exactly what is going on in the devil's realm (that would be Earth for those who misunderstand); Satan is Prince of this planet! If we ignore the Trinity as you say: ego-posturing then how will PRAYERS for this world be evident???? Your argument is invalid. Sorry, the Trinity is not a concept. If it were, we would not be here. The Lord knows what you've written as well as God, and the Holy Spirit is sitting right beside you as you type it! You have little minds that need enlightened to the Grace and Peace of our Lord, the will of God and the comfort we can have with the Holy Spirit....DUH!!!!! This is Christianity 101
15 Jun 10
Originally posted by winkI dont think all "looking into the trinity" is ego-posturing.
Ok then, I have a question:
how is looking at the trinity as ego-posturing????
God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit knows exactly what is going on in the devil's realm (that would be Earth for those who misunderstand); Satan is Prince of this planet! If we ignore the Trinity as you say: ego-posturing then how will PRAYERS for this world be evident???? Your argume ...[text shortened]... l of God and the comfort we can have with the Holy Spirit....DUH!!!!! This is Christianity 101
I'm sure there has been much fine work done via the teaching archetype of the christian trinity.
I suggest that if more energy were spent trying to fix the "devil's realm" rather than trying to defend silly little points of views on the trinity or whatever, it would cease to become the devils realm and would once again be reclaimed by God, who wants us to unite as people in the name of Spirit via the Light.
18 Jun 10
1 edit
Originally posted by Conrau KIt seems to me that you are taking the obvious (to me) view, which I thought was not accepted by Trinitarians; that God is a category that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit all belong to.
Well, I disagree. Firstly, the Trinity is not exclusively a Catholic concept. I am not sure why this is, perhaps American ignorance, but there are quite a number of Christians churches with equal antiquity to the Catholic Church -- for example, the numerous Orthodox and Oriental churches. Each of these also professes belief in the Trinity.
Second rately conveys the ideas of Trinitarian metaphysics and it does so quite coherently.
But wouldn't this just make them three gods? Or are they three "shapes" of God? Why only three? Before Jesus, were there only two? Might there be a fourth in the future?
18 Jun 10
1 edit
Originally posted by AThousandYoung=============================
It seems to me that you are taking the obvious (to me) view, which I thought was not accepted by Trinitarians; that God is a category that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit all belong to.
But wouldn't this just make them three gods? Or are they three "shapes" of God? Why only three? Before Jesus, were there only two? Might there be a fourth in the future?
But wouldn't this just make them three gods? Or are they three "shapes" of God? Why only three? Before Jesus, were there only two? Might there be a fourth in the future?
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All God needs is - On Your Mark, Get Set, Go!
Three "Persons" or three ________s.
On Your Mark is the Father the Source of the divine life.
Get Set is the Son the manifestation of the divine life in man.
Go! the final stage - the transmission of the divine eternal life INTO man.
This is the Triune God. What He is is intrinsically related to what He does. He imparts Himself into His people that God and man may be united.
When you think of the Trinity I want you to remembet "On Your Mark. Get Set. Go!"
God's eternal life is sourced in the Father.
God's eternal life is manifested in the Son the union of God and man.
God the Holy Spirit transmits this reality into the believers for the fulfillment of God's eternal purpose.
18 Jun 10
2 edits
The post that was quoted here has been removedwhat are you talking about, your attempt to try to ascertain the source is a feeble and dishonest attempt to deflect attention from the actual content. do you have any thoughts on the content? did you post anything interesting with regard to the content? like all get out you did. Galvaston has a right to withhold information from those whom he does not deem fit or worthy to be a recipient of such, if you dont like it, dont read his posts and what is more your obsession with paedophiles and paedophilia is well noted and i shall be reporting the matter to the moderators, for it is both offensive, inflammatory and abusive and violates the terms of agreement of the site. You are sick and need a doctor, make an appointment with a mental health practitioner as soon as you can.
18 Jun 10
2 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI asked our friend Joseph from where he got the text. He refused to answer. Therefore I can very well draw my own conclusions.
what are you talking about, your attempt to try to ascertain the source is a feeble and dishonest attempt to deflect attention from the actual content. do you have any thoughts on the content? did you post anything interesting with regard to the content? like all get out you did. Galvaston has a right to withhold information from those whom he do ...[text shortened]... ick and need a doctor, make an appointment with a mental health practitioner as soon as you can.
Would you be happy if I copied in tons of text criticizing the trinity without giving the source? No? I didn't think so either.
As I am a non-fundamentalist I find this secrecy of source and critics of me wanting the source rather annoying.
Perhaps you know the source of his paste-and copying? Or may I still repeat my opinion of the true author of the text? A pedophile Jehowas Witness! Because it is known that JW leaders are obsessed by paedophilia. Not my words - see further http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/march5/11.23.html
However, I didn't make any personal attacks of neither him or you. I just humbly asked for his source. Am I really the bad guy?
18 Jun 10
1 edit
Originally posted by FabianFnasyou are unable to ascertain what a source of a post is within the context of an internet forum, on that basis you are able to state that it was not only a Jehovahs Witness, but a paedophile and furthermore claim that it is not only true, but Holy truth. Does that not strike you as drawing conclusions from a non reality, in other words delusional, someone with mental health issues? What is more, you have a history of mentioning paedophiles and paedophilia in your posts, why should that be the case? It is understood that what is closest to our hearts is what we talk about, for out of the hearts abundance the mouth speaks. If you have a problem in this regard I also suggest seeing a good doctor, there are various methods which may really help you, chemical castration, counselling etc etc.
I asked our friend Joseph from where he got the text. He refused to answer. Therefore I can very well draw my own conclusions.
Would you be happy if I copied in tons of text criticizing the trinity without giving the source? No? I didn't think so either.
As I am a non-fundamentalist I find this secrecy of source and critics of me wanting the source al attacks of neither him or you. I just humbly asked for his source. Am I really the bad guy?
as for your assertions against Jehovahs witnesses, i suggest you educate yourself, here is a link to a well known wikipedia article, freely available and in the public domain,
In a press release dated November 21, 2007, Jehovah's Witnesses' Office of Public Information stated: "In the United States, over 80,000 elders currently serve in over 12,300 congregations … During the last 100 years, only eleven elders have been sued for child abuse in thirteen lawsuits filed in the United States; In seven of these lawsuits against the elders, accusations against the Watchtower Society itself were dismissed by the courts."
source wikipedia
i suggest you compare those figures with the general populace and other organisations such as the catholic church and protestant denominations, for in doing so you will ascertain that the contrast is truly astounding and your big fat lie is lying strewn across the forum floor as the garbage that it is.
i see the moderators had the good sense and decency to remove your prejudiced and slanderous post, i hope they also issued a warning that such shall not be tolerated and we can enjoy the forum without abuse and inflammatory posters like yourself.