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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. 30 Jul '18 01:33
    You parents , do you love your children unconditionally?

    Suzianne used this phrase with reference to God’s love in a thread tonight and it really struck a chord with me so I want to ask contributors what they think God’s “unconditional love” is and what is means in terms of forgiveness and punishment, and yes especially eternal suffering - being burnt alive for eternity.

    Unconditional love, is what it says it is...a love that is without ANY conditions attached. Is the love of God as described in the Bible “unconditional” or conditional. Indeed can love be anything other than unconditional?

    I am expecting Christians here to say that God’s love is conditional (except perhaps Suzianne).

    “God is love”

    1 John 4:7-10 New International Version (NIV)
    Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
  2. 30 Jul '18 01:44
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    You parents , do you love your children unconditionally?

    Suzianne used this phrase with reference to God’s love in a thread tonight and it really struck a chord with me so I want to ask contributors what they think God’s “unconditional love” is and what is means in terms of forgiveness and punishment, and yes especially eternal suffering - being bur ...[text shortened]... t that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
    Sure, but having a mutually loving relationship DOES have conditions.

    You cannot force another to love you back even though you may love them.

    So how would you feel if your child became someone evil like Hitler?
  3. Standard member KellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    30 Jul '18 01:47
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    You parents , do you love your children unconditionally?

    Suzianne used this phrase with reference to God’s love in a thread tonight and it really struck a chord with me so I want to ask contributors what they think God’s “unconditional love” is and what is means in terms of forgiveness and punishment, and yes especially eternal suffering - being bur ...[text shortened]... t that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
    God is love, yes,
    Are there any other traits that also go along with God?
    Holy, Just, Righteous and Good are also traits that God is as well correct?
    We can agree on these too?
  4. 30 Jul '18 02:00
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Sure, but having a mutually loving relationship DOES have conditions.

    You cannot force another to love you back even though you may love them.

    So how would you feel if your child became someone evil like Hitler?
    Relationships are managed through conditions certainly, but isn’t your love for your spouse fundamentally unconditional. I will still love my wife even if she stops loving me. Admittedly my human love may fail after a while of abandonment, but also maybe not.

    You cannot force another to love you back even though you may love them

    This is very true but if they do not love you back, do you punish them? For eternity? With burning?

    I don’t have children, but if I did and one of them became a genocidal despot then I guess I would still love what they used to be and desperately wish they could be that person again. I would still have love for what they were supposed to be.
  5. 30 Jul '18 02:03
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    God is love, yes,
    Are there any other traits that also go along with God?
    Holy, Just, Righteous and Good are also traits that God is as well correct?
    We can agree on these too?
    Yes I agree with all of those. However....

    God is supreme, in control and God is love. ++ God creates hell and knows that he has set things up in such a way that billions of those he loves will go there.

    It doesn’t make sense.
  6. 30 Jul '18 02:13
    By human standards God's live is conditional. Get over it.
  7. 30 Jul '18 02:22
    Originally posted by @eladar
    By human standards God's live is conditional. Get over it.
    Another thought through and insightful contribution from you.
  8. 30 Jul '18 02:25
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    Another thought through and insightful contribution from you.
    The truth is often that way: Black and white...right to the point.

    Most are going to hell. How can anyone go to jail if God loves them?
  9. 30 Jul '18 02:37
    Originally posted by @eladar
    The truth is often that way: Black and white...right to the point.
    Well I guess it’s a good job that you are so convincing at conveying it.
  10. Standard member KellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    30 Jul '18 03:02
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    Yes I agree with all of those. However....

    God is supreme, in control and God is love. ++ God creates hell and knows that he has set things up in such a way that billions of those he loves will go there.

    It doesn’t make sense.
    If God is never changing which I believe we both also agree with, then at no point
    can God be anything other than what God is.
    So God is love, yes.
    God is good, yes.
    God is just, yes
    God is who He is, and will act in ways that agree with all of His traits!
    He will never act in a way that not love, good, just, so every attribute is always satisfied
    at all times, since He never changes.

    Can we agree on these points?
  11. 30 Jul '18 03:14
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    If God is never changing which I believe we both also agree with, then at no point
    can God be anything other than what God is.
    So God is love, yes.
    God is good, yes.
    God is just, yes
    God is who He is, and will act in ways that agree with all of His traits!
    He will never act in a way that not love, good, just, so every attribute is always satisfied
    at all times, since He never changes.

    Can we agree on these points?
    Agreed.
  12. 30 Jul '18 04:35
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    Well I guess it’s a good job that you are so convincing at conveying it.
    Lol it is God that convinces. Those who God is unwilling to convince will suffer the consequences.
  13. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    30 Jul '18 07:01
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    You parents , do you love your children unconditionally?

    Suzianne used this phrase with reference to God’s love in a thread tonight and it really struck a chord with me so I want to ask contributors what they think God’s “unconditional love” is and what is means in terms of forgiveness and punishment, and yes especially eternal suffering - being bur ...[text shortened]... t that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
    If humans are capable of unconditional love (which I believe they are, irrespective of theistic outlook) then it 'has' to be the case that humans are capable of altruism.

    Take the father who runs into a burning building to save his child. This act is both a demonstration of unconditional love and altruism.
  14. Subscriber moonbus
    Uber-Nerd
    30 Jul '18 07:39 / 1 edit
    Unconditional love means letting the one you love do what he has to do.

    Unconditional love means that the one you love doesn't have to do anything to deserve love.

    The paradigm case is that of a new mother and her suckling. The babe doesn't have to do anything to deserve to be loved; the mother just loves it, even when it does what it has to do: barfing on her shoulder and poo-ing its diaper.

    Unconditional love does not mean that parents must accept everything that their child does, such as lying, cheating, stealing. It would be irresponsible of parents not to prepare their child for adult life in society, where laws and rules and moral principles apply, and this will involve corrective measures (possibly but not necessarily including some form of chastisement, depending on the cooperativeness of the child).

    Now, try to keep on loving that child when it's 18 and poos its life. That's when it gets tough. But it is possible.
  15. Subscriber Suzianne
    Misfit Queen
    30 Jul '18 07:49
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    You parents , do you love your children unconditionally?

    Suzianne used this phrase with reference to God’s love in a thread tonight and it really struck a chord with me so I want to ask contributors what they think God’s “unconditional love” is and what is means in terms of forgiveness and punishment, and yes especially eternal suffering - being bur ...[text shortened]... t that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
    Yes, I agree, even though I'm not a parent, I have been the child of wonderful parents who did not deserve all the gray hair I gave them.