Unconditional love

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
No sir.

Was just giving you a few days to prepare yourself.

I'm prepared, 2nd round or do you wish to continue with the 1st?

Originally posted by @kellyjay
I'm prepared, 2nd round or do you wish to continue with the 1st?

To illustrate the unrecognizable God from the OT (through the prism of the NT) would you rather I submit Ezekiel 9:4-7:

'And the Lord said unto him, Go through . . . the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark. . .'

or Isaiah 13:9?

'Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger. . . . Every one that is found shall be thrust through. . . . Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes . . . and their wives ravished. Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them. . . . [T]hey shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes will not spare children.'

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
To illustrate the unrecognizable God from the OT (through the prism of the NT) would you rather I submit Ezekiel 9:4-7:

'And the Lord said unto him, Go through . . . the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. And to the others he said in m ...[text shortened]... . . . . [T]hey shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes will not spare children.'

God is the same in both, you are confusing grace with the Law, our standing with God
had to change for the very things, you are talking about. The Law was our teacher, it
showed us right from wrong, but it did not give us the power to do right, nothing about it
altered us from our internal condition we were in due to sin. Which was why God all the
way through the OT, by Moses, then the prophets did God foretell of one coming, Jesus
Christ who would save us of our sins. Taking on all our guilt for our transgressions and
our iniquities were all put on Him to restore us to peace with God. Throughout the OT we
see what happens when a Holy God comes into close contact with a sinful people, it
doesn’t go well for the sinners. The good news about our salvation started in the OT, by
God giving us grace and mercy right out of the box when we fell.

When the time was right Jesus came into the world, not to condemn sinners but save
them. This was the goal of God from before the foundation of the world. Don’t overlook
all the things in the NT that declare what is to come to sinners outside of Jesus either, it
is by far much worse than just dying in this world. All it took was one sin to enter
humanity and the next generation started murdering their brother until we see the hate
and discontentment in the world as it is now. God is ensuring His eternal Kingdom isn’t
going to suffer what this world has.

I’d also like to point out many believe that God is more kind in the NT than the OT, well
due to Jesus sin was dealt with, and God is actively seeking those who would turn to him
on an individual level. Before Jesus what held God back from destroying humanity, it was
God’s long suffering! God had to put up with us as people who were throwing their
children into fires for other gods, among several other things. He called out a people
gave them His laws, and they turned from Him over and over. His grace in my opinion
was on full display in the OT too, if not that flood would have been it.

Isaiah 28:16
therefore thus says the Lord GOD, “Behold, I am the one who has laid as a foundation in Zion, a stone, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone, of a sure foundation: ‘Whoever believes will not be in haste.’

Isaiah 53:5
But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed.

Matthew 13:35
This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet: “I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter what has been hidden since the foundation of the world.”

Originally posted by @divegeester
You parents , do you love your children unconditionally? ...

No. Normal people want to love the kids they raise. But unearned love is tepid and weak. Sort of pathetic, really.

Originally posted by @apathist
No. Normal people want to love the kids they raise. But unearned love is tepid and weak. Sort of pathetic, really.

You are saying those around you have to earn your love?
You also must earn other's love too?

Originally posted by @apathist
No. Normal people want to love the kids they raise. But unearned love is tepid and weak. Sort of pathetic, really.

I think unearned love is a beautiful thing.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
I think unearned love is a beautiful thing.

Yes

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
I think unearned love is a beautiful thing.

Hypothetically why would the love of God demonstrated on the cross not be beautiful?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Hypothetically why would the love of God demonstrated on the cross not be beautiful?

Who has said otherwise?

Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
No sweat. We shall all be held accountable for our thoughts and deeds. Feigning ignorance will not cut

Whom do you believe will hold us all accountable for our thoughts and deeds?

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Who has said otherwise?

I have. I think the whole doctrine of atonement thing is willfully grotesque nonsense that, at best, represents a bizarre and demented notion of "love". The human imagination has dredged some sort of emotionally depraved depths to quench dark desires for a belief system rooted in revenge and coercion and anger and a ludicrous narrative involving child sacrifice.

Originally posted by @fmf
I have. I think the whole doctrine of atonement thing is willfully grotesque nonsense that, at best, represents a bizarre and demented notion of "love". The human imagination has dredged some sort of emotionally depraved depths to quench dark desires for a belief system rooted in revenge and coercion and anger and a ludicrous narrative involving child sacrifice.

Interesting that you have this perspective when you believe there are no moral absolutes apart from your own moral sensibilities.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Interesting that you have this perspective when you believe there are no moral absolutes apart from your own moral sensibilities.

In what way specifically?

Originally posted by @fmf
I have. I think the whole doctrine of atonement thing is willfully grotesque nonsense that, at best, represents a bizarre and demented notion of "love". The human imagination has dredged some sort of emotionally depraved depths to quench dark desires for a belief system rooted in revenge and coercion and anger and a ludicrous narrative involving child sacrifice.

I see beauty in Luke 23:34:

“Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
I see beauty in Luke 23:34:

“Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”

I more had in mind the whole bizarro 'I "love" you all and I want to forgive you all but I'm going to require myself to have my own child tortured and killed before I do so' thing.