18 Apr 14
Originally posted by Great King RatThe thing GKR, God has let himself be known and every Christian (for the most part) understands this. He has made himself know in the person of Jesus Christ, it is that some choose to ignore that.
There have been and continue to be lots of wars based on religious differences. If indeed life and peace is the most important rule then god should let himself be known (without room for doubt) and set things straight.
But perhaps god has different idea of "the most important rule".
18 Apr 14
Originally posted by RJHindsBut the fact that atheists don't in fact have "animal" morality but instead have morality that is, for the most part, comparable to fellow humans ~ both religionists and non-religionists ~ the world over, without having memorized it and internalized it from theological texts, strongly suggests that "hard wiring" is front and centre when it comes to the codes governing human interactions.
Surprise. I believe atheist have disconnected any moral hard wiring and live totally on animal instincts. To be rewired they must be born again of the spirit.
Originally posted by yoctobyteWhat I find interesting is the role authority plays with shaping morality.
... for determining morality?
In another thread I asked the question "What are the rules for determining morality?" For atheists, without using the bible or any religion, what guides and forms your morality?
For example, here in the US back in the 1800's, slavery was the law of the land. If you had asked the average person if slavery was "OK", most would say it is, even though they may have added it's not ideal.
Now turn the clock forward hundreds of years after slavery had been made illegal and ask the same question. Most, if not all, will say that slavery is immoral.
Likewise, look at the abortion issue. When abortion was illegal most would have said that abortion was immoral. However, turn the clock forward to today with abortion being the law of the land for decades and most will say it's "OK", even though they may concede it is not ideal.
The reason I know that both slavery and abortion are immoral is that even though people may say it is OK, deep down they know it is not ideal.
To sum up, we are sheep or might makes right. However you want to look at it.
18 Apr 14
Originally posted by FMFWell, I don't believe they think so. Anyway, something is wrong with them.
But the fact that atheists don't in fact have "animal" morality but instead have morality that is, for the most part, comparable to fellow humans ~ both religionists and non-religionists ~ the world over, without having memorized it and internalized it from theological texts, strongly suggests that "hard wiring" is front and centre when it comes to the codes governing human interactions.
Originally posted by yoctobyteThe vast majority doesn't "understand", as you put it. Further, it is not a choice to (not) believe in a certain god. This has been mentioned here time and time again, but it's part of the religious indoctrination to make people believe that believing is a choice.
The thing GKR, God has let himself be known and every Christian (for the most part) understands this. He has made himself know in the person of Jesus Christ, it is that some choose to ignore that.
All of this is moot however, because god (being omnipotent) could easily fix this and if love and peace is indeed his most important rule then that is exactly what he should do.
He should fix this not by some vague way like he did before (send son, let him die, assume that son will be known all over the world, assume the son will be regarded as a true son of God all over the world, assume His words will be written down exactly as intended, assume no mistakes will be made intranslations, etc etc etc) but by being absolutely clear about it.
If I was a scientist and I knew for sure a large earthquake was imminent would I warn the people with vague psalms and poems and metaphors or would I be as clear and upfront about it as possible? What about you?
18 Apr 14
Originally posted by Great King RatWhat does it matter, if they refuse to believe?
The vast majority doesn't "understand", as you put it. Further, it is not a choice to (not) believe in a certain god. This has been mentioned here time and time again, but it's part of the religious indoctrination to make people believe that believing is a choice.
All of this is moot however, because god (being omnipotent) could easily fix this and ...[text shortened]... and poems and metaphors or would I be as clear and upfront about it as possible? What about you?
18 Apr 14
Originally posted by Great King RatI want to answer your post and will, but will take a minute or two to think through.
The vast majority doesn't "understand", as you put it. Further, it is not a choice to (not) believe in a certain god. This has been mentioned here time and time again, but it's part of the religious indoctrination to make people believe that believing is a choice.
All of this is moot however, because god (being omnipotent) could easily fix this and ...[text shortened]... and poems and metaphors or would I be as clear and upfront about it as possible? What about you?
18 Apr 14
Originally posted by yoctobyteOur morality is based on our biological instinct to reproduce. Being the species we are, we require that our offspring gets taken care of extremely well (notice the utter helplessness of human offspring compared to other animals) which is why we need functioning societies. And we are smart enough to realise that if we want other people to not hurt us and our offspring we need to treat those people the same way we'd like them to treat us.
... for determining morality?
In another thread I asked the question "What are the rules for determining morality?" For atheists, without using the bible or any religion, what guides and forms your morality?
Of course, sometimes our animal instincts take over and morality goes out the window.