1. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    25 May '15 00:35
    What are the temporal and eternal benefits for someone who believes
    in an after life to decide to become an agnostic or an atheist?
  2. SubscriberFMF
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    25 May '15 03:50
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    What are the temporal and eternal benefits for someone who believes
    in an after life to decide to become an agnostic or an atheist?
    I can't remember ever meeting an atheist who believed in an after life; so your recent claim, on another thread, that you have "...met many atheists during the course of [your] life both offline and online" seem either daft or disengenuous. Did you actually have a proper conversation with any of them? I think if someone is honest with themselves and open with others about their beliefs and about being atheist/agnostic and about not having been provided with the evidence needed to believe in an after life, they benefit from living a life based on intellectual honesty and unfettered by religionist ideology, mythology and superstition. One of your silly riffs here on this forum, Grampy Bobby, and one that I cannot remember you ever defending ~ because you can't ~ is that people can somehow choose [i.e. make a decision] to believe something that they simply do not believe. The way you have worded your OP smacks of the kind of lack of intellectual honesty that many atheists/agnostics are able to avoid.
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    25 May '15 05:33
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    What are the temporal and eternal benefits for someone who believes
    in an after life to decide to become an agnostic or an atheist?
    As FMF says, it would not be a choice. One does not choose to believe or not believe. One comes to a realization. If you come to the realization that there is no good reason to believe in the existence of God then you automatically become agnostic or atheist. The benefit is that you are now one step closer to knowing the truth and no longer living a lie and believing in fairy tales.
  4. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    25 May '15 10:321 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    I can't remember ever meeting an atheist who believed in an after life; so your recent claim, on another thread, that you have "...met many atheists during the course of [your] life both offline and online" seem either daft or disengenuous. Did you actually have a proper conversation with any of them? I think if someone is honest with themselves and open with other ...[text shortened]... P smacks of the kind of lack of intellectual honesty that many atheists/agnostics are able to avoid.
    Your own recall isn't the issue. My "recent claim, on another thread" did not state whether these friends believed in an after life or not. Please refrain from superimposing your own tangential presumptions on the narrative. Thank you.
  5. SubscriberFMF
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    25 May '15 10:341 edit
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Your own recall isn't the issue. My "recent claim, on another thread" did not state whether these friends believed in an after life or not. Please refrain from superimposing your own tangential presumptions on the narrative. Thank you.
    You have completely sidestepped the content of my on-topic, to-the-heart-of the-matter response to your OP.
  6. SubscriberFMF
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    25 May '15 10:36
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    My "recent claim, on another thread" did not state whether these friends believed in an after life or not.
    Have any of the atheists you've met believed in an "after life"?
  7. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    25 May '15 10:451 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    As FMF says, it would not be a choice. One does not choose to believe or not believe. One comes to a realization. If you come to the realization that there is no good reason to believe in the existence of God then you automatically become agnostic or atheist. The benefit is that you are now one step closer to knowing the truth and no longer living a lie and believing in fairy tales.
    twhitehead, when you first became aware of the game of chess with a thimble full of information you could have decided it wasn't of any interest to you. Similarly, when someone becomes aware of the possibility that some god or gods may exist [God consciousness] he or she may decide to summarily dismiss that possibility and by definition become an atheist.

    Human volition has only three polarities: Yes [theist]. Maybe [agnostic: still curious and objective]. No [atheist] in this regard; each represents a conscious choice.
  8. SubscriberFMF
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    25 May '15 10:54
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Similarly, when someone becomes aware of the possibility that some god or gods may exist [God consciousness] he or she may decide to summarily dismiss that possibility and by definition become an atheist.
    When you slip the obviously loaded word "summarily" into your statements and questions on this matter, what time period and what amount of exposure-to-material in the process of deliberation do you have in mind?
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    25 May '15 10:56
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Human volition has only three polarities: Yes [theist]. Maybe [agnostic: still curious and objective]. No [atheist] in this regard; each represents a conscious choice.
    Do you think that people can make a "conscious choice" to believe the same things as you happen to believe even if they simply do not believe the same things as you do?
  10. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    25 May '15 10:57
    Originally posted by FMF
    Have any of the atheists you've met believed in an "after life"?
    Originally posted by FMF
    "Have any of the [agnostics or] atheists you've met believed in an "after life"?

    Yes; five of the dozen friends I had in mind. We continue our relaxed conversations on a wide range of both spiritual and secular topics and areas of mutual interest by personal message and/or email and/or phone.
  11. SubscriberFMF
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    25 May '15 10:59
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Yes; five of the dozen friends I had in mind. We continue our relaxed conversations on a wide range of both spiritual and secular topics and areas of mutual interest by personal message and/or email and/or phone.
    You are seriously claiming to know atheists who believe they will continue to experience life after death?
  12. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    25 May '15 11:00
    Originally posted by FMF
    When you slip the obviously loaded word "summarily" into your statements and questions on this matter, what time period and what amount of exposure-to-material in the process of deliberation do you have in mind?
    Varies by individual and culture and, therefore, remains unknown and undefined.
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    25 May '15 11:00
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    twhitehead, when you first became aware of the game of chess with a thimble full of information you could have decided it wasn't of any interest to you.
    That is a poor analogy. Interest in something is quite different from belief.

    Similarly, when someone becomes aware of the possibility that some god or gods may exist [God consciousness] he or she may decide to summarily dismiss that possibility and by definition become an atheist.
    No. An atheist is someone that lacks belief in God or gods. He would have already been an atheist and would have remained an atheist throughout the process you describe above. And it would not be a decision. The only decision you describe is whether or not to investigate the possibility of a god existing.

    Human volition has only three polarities: Yes [theist]. Maybe [agnostic: still curious and objective]. No [atheist] in this regard; each represents a conscious choice.
    No. None of those positions represent a conscious choice. If you disagree, then please prove your case by consciously choosing to be atheist for one day. If you are successful, then let us know. If you are not successful, then I have proved you wrong.
  14. SubscriberFMF
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    25 May '15 11:02
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Varies by individual and culture and, therefore, remains unknown and undefined.
    You are dodging the question, Grampy Bobby. I asked you what you mean when you slip the word "summarily" into your statements and questions on this matter, not what individuals from other cultures mean when they use it.
  15. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    25 May '15 11:04
    Originally posted by FMF
    You are seriously claiming to know atheists who believe they will continue to experience life after death?
    "agnostics and atheists": some reject the concept of an after life; some think it may be a possibility which they are unable to empirically or rationally prove or deny; some accept the possibility with a measure of concern.
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