"What are the temporal and eternal..."

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Interesting gymnastics from you Lemon Lime.

Said the master contortionist... like I said, I don't have a problem with GB because he doesn't habitually misrepresent what I've said. It seems you've run out of things to say too.

Originally posted by lemon lime
Seems like a rather lame attempt to paint me as being paranoid..

Well it was you who said what you said, not me. The point being, why would you respond to someone disagreeing with you on a dedicated discussion and debate forum by depicting it as being an attempt at "dismantling" beliefs? It's a peculiar perception of - and reaction to - disagreement.

Originally posted by lemon lime
[b]Acting on a belief is what constitutes and gives meaning to having made a decision. Saying you believe something but not demonstrating it by what you do is not belief... it's lip service.[/b]

Do you then believe that belief in Christ alone is NOT enough for "salvation" and that there must be demonstrations of belief and acts/good works too?

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
Well, I still wouldn't call that process a decision - it's more an evaluation. I think we can choose to examine only certain types of evidence in hopes that we will become convinced of the desired conclusion. But, judging from experiences of frustrated Christians who have tried for years to believe in God and failed, I conclude that even ...[text shortened]... ne overlord of the afterlife, and there is a chance that one might find justice there after all.

Thanks. I appreciate your comprehensive on topic reply.
Follow on question: What is your view with regard to human depravity?

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Would "God's donkey" agree?

Originally posted by lemon lime
I have never made any reference to the notion that someone "..could both believe and disbelieve something at the same time", this is something you have introduced.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"agnostics and atheists": some reject the concept of an after life; some think it may be a possibility which they are unable to empirically o ...[text shortened]... "after life"?' Would your answer be a yes or a no?


Atheists do not believe in an afterlife.

"Atheists do not believe in an afterlife." lemon lime, in my experience the words people speak or write in public don't necessarily reflect the entire scope and spectrum of what they think. Why? Peer pressure. Fear of disapproval. Timidity. Censure. Besides, when the deliberative process is still in progress, the decision is still tentative; not final. Your thoughts?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Atheists do not believe in an afterlife." lemon lime, in my experience the words people speak or write in public don't necessarily reflect the entire scope and spectrum of what they think. Why? Peer pressure. Fear of disapproval. Timidity. Censure. Besides, when the deliberative process is still in progress, the decision is still tentative; not final. Your thoughts?

Do the words you write here in public reflect what you think?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Atheists do not believe in an afterlife." lemon lime, in my experience the words people speak or write in public don't necessarily reflect the entire scope and spectrum of what they think. Why? Peer pressure. Fear of disapproval. Timidity. Censure. Besides, when the deliberative process is still in progress, the decision is still tentative; not final. Your thoughts?

Do the words you write in public not reflect the entire scope and spectrum of what you think? If so, do you suffer from peer pressure, fear of disapproval, timidity, and censure? Is your deliberative process still in progress?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"agnostics and atheists": some reject the concept of an after life; some think it may be a possibility which they are unable to empirically or rationally prove or deny; some accept the possibility with a measure of concern.

Have you ever met an atheist who believed in "benefits" that are "eternal"?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Do the words you write in public not reflect the entire scope and spectrum of what you think? If so, do you suffer from peer pressure, fear of disapproval, timidity, and censure? Is your deliberative process still in progress?

I don't think Grampy Bobby's attempted condescending dismissal of people who have different beliefs from him was, for one moment, supposed to be applied to himself or to people he happens to share beliefs with.

FMF: "Have any of the atheists you've met believed in an "after life"?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Yes; five of the dozen friends I had in mind.

You say you have "dozens" of atheist and agnostic friends. What proportion of the atheists you know do you estimate believe in an "after life"?

Originally posted by FMF
Of course they don't, so one wonders why Grampy Bobby is being so evasive after having been asked about this. What "eternal benefits" does he imagine atheists perceive? Perhaps his OP was just half baked and spontaneous. Perhaps that is why he is unwilling to discuss it properly.

I know of nobody who calls themselves an atheist, who believes in an afterlife.

It's a rare to non-existent position amongst self-declared and acknowledged atheists.

However, there is nothing inherent in atheism that requires disbelief in an afterlife.

I would thus strongly hesitate before trying to assert that nobody, who lacks a belief in gods,
has a belief in some form of afterlife.