26 May 15
Originally posted by googlefudgeI know of at least two people who are atheist while still believing in an afterlife of sorts.
I know of nobody who calls themselves an atheist, who believes in an afterlife.
It's a rare to non-existent position amongst self-declared and acknowledged atheists.
However, there is nothing inherent in atheism that requires disbelief in an afterlife.
I would thus strongly hesitate before trying to assert that nobody, who lacks a belief in gods,
has a belief in some form of afterlife.
It's amazing how people here are still struggling to understand the meaning of the word atheist.
As to the benefits of atheism:
Atheism offers nothing. No eternal life, no paradise after death, no meeting up with deceased acquaintances, no "deserved" punishment for the Hitlers of this world, no answer to why we are here, no answer as to the origin of the universe.
It's an absence of a belief in god(s).
How do people not get that????????
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26 May 15
Originally posted by Great King RatMy hypothesis, with the caveat that some [particularly professional apologists] deliberately lie and distort the facts,
I know of at least two people who are atheist while still believing in an afterlife of sorts.
It's amazing how people here are still struggling to understand the meaning of the word atheist.
As to the benefits of atheism:
Atheism offers nothing. No eternal life, no paradise after death, no meeting up with deceased acquaintances, no "deserved" ...[text shortened]... of the universe.
It's an absence of a belief in god(s).
How do people not get that????????
is that religious people [mostly theists] use their religious beliefs as foundational beliefs for their world-view.
So naturally they look around at other people to see their religious beliefs to see what their foundation is.
Which 'works' until you hit irreligious secular atheists whose 'religious belief' is not to have a religion or belief
in god/s.
This is also where, I think, many peoples desire to label whatever IS the basis of your world-view as a religion
comes from. So if you are [for example] a Rationalist, Secular Humanist, Scientific Skeptic, then they will
try to label all of those as your religious beliefs. Which is of course absurd, if you label everything as a religion
then the word becomes totally meaningless. The word does have a meaning and the above don't qualify.
Add this to the whole school playground thing of "well if what I am doing is bad then you do it too" school
of debating. Which includes all the "you believe based on faith too!" arguments come from.
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26 May 15
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyHere is a benefit atheists have over [many if not all] theists.
What are the temporal and eternal benefits for someone who believes
in an after life to decide to become an agnostic or an atheist?
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2015/05/creationism_and_evolution_in_school_religious_students_can_t_learn_natural.html
A viewpoint of someone who's education [they now see] was disrupted by their closed mind.
A mind closed by their religion.
As I say, WE are not the ones with the closed minds. [as a group, obviously any individual
may or may not have a closed mind about any given topic]
26 May 15
Originally posted by googlefudgeyou have limited your search for truth to unintelligent agencies, that is why you are close minded and a Borg!
Here is a benefit atheists have over [many if not all] theists.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2015/05/creationism_and_evolution_in_school_religious_students_can_t_learn_natural.html
A viewpoint of someone who's education [they now see] was disrupted by their closed mind.
A mind closed by their religion.
As I say, WE a ...[text shortened]... a group, obviously any individual
may or may not have a closed mind about any given topic][/i]
26 May 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSay you keep saying. But where is you're evidence to support such a claim? How do you know I have limited my search to anything? Produce the readies or 'shut up a yo face fatboy'!!!!
you have limited your search for truth to unintelligent agencies, that is why you are close minded and a Borg!
You on the other hand had to admit to being closed minded and ignorant. If anyone is the Borg round here it's you. You need 8 men you've never met to instruct you on how to life your life. You need your instructions and guidance printed in a magazine once a month. Talk about brain dead. 😲😲
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI for one have no such limitations. I haven't even limited my search for truth to non-unicorns. If I find good evidence that a unicorn is responsible for the bottle of milk disappearing from my fridge yesterday, then I will accept that as the most likely explanation. As for now, my leading hypothesis is that it was the maid (an intelligent agent) who moved it.
you have limited your search for truth to unintelligent agencies, that is why you are close minded and a Borg!
You on the other hand:
1. Have openly refused to read a science book because you are afraid you might learn something.
2. Refuse to discuss your personal opinion, and instead only channel what you have been told by your organisation.
You are certainly one of the most Borg-like posters on the forum. I am guessing that your recognition of that is why you use the phrase.
Okay, at this stage it's just an hypothesis, but are JWs a modern day manifestation of the Borg? Here is the evidence so far:
1. Borg send a collective message to their targets. (Usually followed by a declaration that the target in question will be assimilated and its "biological and technological distinctiveness" added to their own).
2. "Resistance is futile". (They are relentless; machine like in their endeavor).
3. Borg function as drones with a "hive mind" or "collective consciousness".
4. The Borg's ultimate goal is "achieving perfection".
5. Their appearance is rather comical and out of place.
5. They have a queen. (Enter Robbie).
26 May 15
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeWell, technically they would be a historical version of the Borg.
Okay, at this stage it's just an hypothesis, but are JWs a modern day manifestation of the Borg? Here is the evidence so far:
1. Borg send a collective message to their targets. (Usually followed by a declaration that the target in question will be assimilated and its "biological and technological distinctiveness" added to their own).
2. "Resist ...[text shortened]...
5. Their appearance is rather comical and out of place.
5. They have a queen. (Enter Robbie).
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI'm annoyed by people who consistently add and subtract from what I'm saying. So I make it a point to carefully read what they say, and take them at their word as to what they believe or don't believe. I don't know any of them, so if their words are all I see then their words are all I have to work with.
"Atheists do not believe in an afterlife." lemon lime, in my experience the words people speak or write in public don't necessarily reflect the entire scope and spectrum of what they think. Why? Peer pressure. Fear of disapproval. Timidity. Censure. Besides, when the deliberative process is still in progress, the decision is still tentative; not final. Your thoughts?
By definition an atheist does not believe in an afterlife... if a self described atheist claims to believe in an afterlife, or keeps open the possibility there may be one, then by definition he is not an atheist. However, if I try delving too deeply into what I think they believe I would only be setting myself up for doing the same thing that annoys me.
You've been talking to people who believe peer pressure, fear of disapproval, timidity and censure belong to us and not them. And for them the deliberative process is not still in progress, so they don't see their decision as being tentative
And it should go without saying this doesn't apply to everyone (Christian or atheist) but if I don't state the obvious I can expect to see someone claiming I've said otherwise.
Originally posted by lemon limeClearly you didn't read this thread very well as it has already been clearly pointed out that some atheists do believe in an afterlife.
So I make it a point to carefully read what they say,...
In fact, a large percentage of people in the far east believe in an afterlife but not a deity and are therefore atheists.
Originally posted by twhiteheadHow does believing in a supernatural existence square with atheism leaning toward believing only naturalistic explanations? If an atheist can presume the existence of a supernatural realm, then it's not too great a leap from there to presume the existence of supernatural beings. A "deity" in that realm would be responsible for the creation of this realm... which would be difficult to deny, given how little is known about a supernatural realm and its relationship with this (natural) realm.
Clearly you didn't read this thread very well as it has already been clearly pointed out that some atheists do believe in an afterlife.
In fact, a large percentage of people in the far east believe in an afterlife but not a deity and are therefore atheists.
Most atheists believe life exists in other parts of the universe, so it seems odd that an atheist believing in a supernatural realm would not also make the same presumption of life existing within that realm as well.
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26 May 15
Originally posted by lemon limeA theist is a person who believes in the existence of a god or gods.
How does believing in a supernatural existence square with atheism leaning toward believing in only naturalistic explanations? If an atheist can presume the existence of a supernatural realm then it's not too great a leap from there to presume the existence of supernatural beings.
Most atheists believe (natural) life exists in other parts of the univer ...[text shortened]... in a supernatural realm would not also make the same presumption of life existing in that realm.
An atheist is a person who is not a theist. ie, they lack a belief in the existence of gods.
That is it. The end. Period.
There is no requirement for them to call themselves an atheist, or for them to believe, or disbelieve
anything else.
There is no requirement for them to have a good reason to lack a belief in gods, there is no requirement
for them to have ever even considered the idea. It's possible to believe in all kinds of nonsense and woo
[like astrology, or ghosts, spirits, other 'realms', etc] without believing in god/s.
Now many self proclaimed atheists from 'movement atheism' have similar culture and beliefs and tend
towards the Scientific, Skeptic, Secular Humanist, Naturalist [Geek/Nerd often as well] end of the spectrum.
And thus ALSO do not believe in afterlives, the supernatural, ect... But it's not a requirement of atheism
that this is so.
However they [we] represent a very tiny minority of the sum totality of atheists in the world at large.
And that minority is unrepresentative of the majority of people who are atheists in it's make-up.
Which is why we need to [and do] take great trouble to make it clear that beyond lacking a belief in gods
we do not all share the same worldview/s or opinions and cannot any-of-us speak for the whole.