"What are the temporal and eternal..."

Originally posted by lemon lime
[b]Acting on a belief is what constitutes and gives meaning to having made a decision. Saying you believe something but not demonstrating it by what you do is not belief... it's lip service.[/b]

But no atheists here are saying that they believe and then not acting on it. We are talking about is it possible to decide to believe, not what happens once one has believed.

Originally posted by FMF
What prevents you from addressing criticism of an idea to the person who is propagating the idea and instead address it to someone who reiterates it in order to disagree with it? It's a very common ~ and interesting ~ kind of behaviour on the part of Christians in this community.

I'm curious to know why you would you try enlisting my help in criticising someone I don't have a problem with.

I personally don't have a problem with how GB goes about talking to atheists. It's not how I would go about doing it, but not all atheists think exactly alike just as not all Christians think exactly alike... do you get it now?

Originally posted by lemon lime
I'm curious to know why you would you try enlisting my help in criticising someone I don't have a problem with.

I am not trying to enlist your help. What is interesting is the reluctance of some Christians ~ on a discussion & debate form, lest we forget ~ to be seen to disagree with certain other Christians [even on fundamental things] but instead they seek to disagree with those Christians' ideas when non-Christians reiterate them in the course of querying them. It's as if they are hamstrung in some way ~ and it certainly makes some posters seem rather unprincipled on occasion.

Originally posted by lemon lime
I personally don't have a problem with how GB goes about talking to atheists.

You said on the previous page: "I believe it's a waste of effort to ask atheists about an afterlife". Do you think this thread's OP and Grampy Bobby's contributions on this thread are "a waste of effort"?

Originally posted by FMF
I am not trying to enlist your help. What is interesting is the reluctance of some Christians ~ on a discussion & debate form, lest we forget ~ to be seen to disagree with certain other Christians [even on fundamental things] but instead they seek to disagree with those Christians' ideas when non-Christians reiterate them in the course of querying them. It's as if they are hamstrung in some way.

This is why I get a lot of stick here; because I am prepared to "break ranks". Lemon Lime for example will accuse me of attacking and undermining the faith of other Christians simply because I disagree with them directly.

Originally posted by divegeester
But no atheists here are saying that they believe and then not acting on it. We are talking about it is possible to decide to believe, not what happens once one has believed.

That's like asking if it's possible to decide not to believe. Is not believing also a decision?

I get where you and FMF and big snarling dog are going with this, but I don't buy into the presumption that belief in God is based on nothing but faith. I was an atheist before I became a Christian, so it would be presumptuous of you to think I'm unaware of what atheists believe.

Originally posted by lemon lime
[b]Acting on a belief is what constitutes and gives meaning to having made a decision. Saying you believe something but not demonstrating it by what you do is not belief... it's lip service.[/b]

BUMP

Do you then believe that belief in Christ alone is NOT enough for "salvation" and that there must be demonstrations of belief and acts/good works too?

Originally posted by lemon lime
That's like asking if it's possible to decide [b]not to believe. Is not believing also a decision?[/b]

Grampy Bobby - for years and years - has been suggesting that not believing in Christ is "a decision" made by non-believers.

Originally posted by lemon lime
That's like asking if it's possible to decide [b]not to believe. Is not believing also a decision?

I get where you and FMF and big snarling dog are going with this, but I don't buy into the presumption that belief in God is based on nothing but faith. I was an atheist before I became a Christian, so it would be presumptuous of you to believe I'm unaware of what atheists believe.[/b]

For some reason you seem to be subtly changing you position on this. Earlier you were saying it was a "waste of time" to ask atheists about an afterlife but now you are saying there is more to it than just faith.

Originally posted by lemon lime
I was an atheist before I became a Christian, so it would be presumptuous of you to think I'm unaware of what atheists believe.

That you were an atheist in the past does not give you some special insight into the mind of all atheists. Furthermore, "atheist" or not is irrelevant, all of us were in the same unrepentant and unregenerated spiritual condition before we knew christ.

Originally posted by divegeester
That you were an atheist in the past does not give you some special insight into the mind of all atheists. Furthermore, "atheist" or not is irrelevant, all of us were in the same unrepentant and unregenerated spiritual condition before we knew christ.

That you were an atheist in the past does not give you some special insight into the mind of all atheists.

Of course not, because not all atheists think exactly alike just as not all Christians think exactly alike.

Originally posted by divegeester
For some reason you seem to be subtly changing you position on this. Earlier you were saying it was a "waste of time" to ask atheists about an afterlife but now you are saying there is more to it than just faith.

For some reason you're finding a subtle change in position where none exists. Atheists don't believe in an afterlife. I'm no longer an atheist. Not all atheists think alike just as not all Christians think alike. You seem to be struggling with how to go about dismantling a fellow Christians belief... maybe this is a task you should leave for atheists.

Originally posted by lemon lime
You seem to be struggling with how to go about dismantling a fellow Christians belief... maybe this is a task you should leave for atheists.

This seems like rather a paranoid stance to take on a discussion and debate forum populated by people with different beliefs.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Would you describe yourself as an atheist, agnostic, theist or believer in Christ?

Asking a question you already know the answer to, is rude. Did you have a point, or were you deliberately being rude?

Originally posted by FMF
This seems like rather a paranoid stance to take on a discussion and debate forum populated by people with different beliefs.

Seems like a rather lame attempt to paint me as being paranoid. Why do you feel the need to bring out your buckets of paint and broad stroke brush when you can't think of anything else to say?

Oops, I think I just answered my own question.