What does "everybody is evil" mean?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
revelation isn't justice, it is punishment. rather than end the world quick (why he would need to end the world in the first place is another issue), he would rather make the "wicked" suffer, before he makes them suffer for all eternity.

jesus wouldn't do this. no matter how wicked the world is

Did you read revelation, Jesus is actually talking in that book as well. Do you see God
in the NT, there is only one God.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Did you read revelation, Jesus is actually talking in that book as well.

That's an extraordinary claim. Can you substantiate it?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
god is infinitely more wise and superior than us. we are just a smidge more intelligent than dogs. exactly how bad is your wrath and fury when your dog craps the carpet? do you torture your dog for an eternity? do you murder his offspring to the 7th generations? do you murder all the chihuahuas in the world because your chihuahua crapped the carpet?


wh ...[text shortened]... ill have a psychotic episode because a race of far inferior beings did something he didn't like?

Hell was made for the Devil and those that follow him, those that belong to Him, for the
evil done in what should have been a Kingdom where love was the driving force for all
actions and motivation. If you want to justify the sinners before God go for it, if you want
to ignore the eternal consequences for what takes place in this life time that too is up to
you. None of us up setup the universe for our personal tastes, for our likes and dislikes
so they are not what we can use to suggest this is what God should or shouldn't do, our
likes and dislikes do not come into play for that.

What will come into play is God, a life time of sin and unrepentance is more than just
crapping on a carpet. God now is about to start a Kingdom where we do not die and pass
out of it into death is going to judge those about to be let in and kept out, and since He is
infinitely more wise, intelligent than us I'm quite sure His view point and the reality of it will
be much clearer than a sinner justifying themselves before God and man while steeped in
sin still.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Hell was made for the Devil and those that follow him, those that belong to Him, for the
evil done in what should have been a Kingdom where love was the driving force for all
actions and motivation. If you want to justify the sinners before God go for it, if you want
to ignore the eternal consequences for what takes place in this life time that too is up ...[text shortened]... much clearer than a sinner justifying themselves before God and man while steeped in
sin still.

Do you believe that the "sins" you will commit in the future are already forgiven?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
god is infinitely more wise and superior than us. we are just a smidge more intelligent than dogs. exactly how bad is your wrath and fury when your dog craps the carpet? do you torture your dog for an eternity? do you murder his offspring to the 7th generations? do you murder all the chihuahuas in the world because your chihuahua crapped the carpet?


wh ...[text shortened]... ill have a psychotic episode because a race of far inferior beings did something he didn't like?

"why do you think god will have a psychotic episode because a race of far inferior beings did something he didn't like?"

I think we are going to be judged on things we did we acknowledged are bad and evil.
I believe not being aware of breaking the law is no excuse for doing it, and I think we will
see in many things we condemned others for we will see us doing it thereby condemning
ourselves as we are also a law unto ourselves. We will not escape the judgment, we will
have no excuses, our only hope is the forgiveness offered by God which even there we
cannot earn but only accept as a gift.

Originally posted by KellyJay
We will not escape the judgment, we will have no excuses, our only hope is the forgiveness offered by God which even there we cannot earn but only accept as a gift.

So you believe you might be thrown into a "Lake of Fire" even though you believe that Jesus died to "save" you from your "sins"?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
those that believe in the global flood justify it by saying "well everybody was evil, the world had to end".

so what does that mean?

let's consider that being evil means you are being evil towards someone else. i don't care much if what you do is not affecting anyone. i don't care if you have evil thoughts if you don't act on them.

so one being ...[text shortened]... l his hammer.



the conclusion is that god destroyed a LOT of victims in the global flood.

The evil was due to the fact that the Sons of God (the watching angels) saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful and they took all they pleased as wives and corrupted mankind to the point that they were thiking of evil things contrary to the will of God.

Only eight people were left unaffected by this corruption, and God had to save man at that time by destroying all the others and protecting these eight from corruption. He chose to bring a flood over all the earth as a way to destroy this evil and preserve a good line of descent for the Messiah to come.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watcher_(angel

Originally posted by KellyJay
Did you read revelation, Jesus is actually talking in that book as well. Do you see God
in the NT, there is only one God.

no, the author says jesus appeared to him and spoke to him.

do you believe the author or not? how many old men hallucinate about the end of times?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Hell was made for the Devil and those that follow him, those that belong to Him, for the
evil done in what should have been a Kingdom where love was the driving force for all
actions and motivation. If you want to justify the sinners before God go for it, if you want
to ignore the eternal consequences for what takes place in this life time that too is up ...[text shortened]... much clearer than a sinner justifying themselves before God and man while steeped in
sin still.

"if you want to ignore the eternal consequences for what takes place in this life time that too is up to you"
if my dog craps the carpet, i smack him with the newspaper and send him to his corner. i yell at him. and i forgive him in an hour because he is a dog.


the bible says god is forgiving. you are saying that is only true as long as you are alive. after that, he will throw you in eternal suffering, and every time he would remember you, he would again make a conscious decision to keep you suffering? the god of love, will consciously decide to keep torturing you forever? because of some mistakes you did during a 50-100 years span?

"What will come into play is God, a life time of sin and unrepentance is more than just
crapping on a carpet"
it's a matter of scale. crapping on a carpet would get you an hour in the dog house. a murder would get you 20 years in jail. then god punishes you with eternity in hell? after a million years of sufffering, would the evil man even know why he is being tortured for? would his victims care? and that is only for evil men who caused pain and suffering. the bible also says atheists and the wrong flavor of theists also go to hell. in their case it is a victimless crime. why are they suffering? is the atheist being punished with an eternity of suffering because he ignored god for 100 years? shouldn't god just ignore the atheist for 100 years and call it even?

Originally posted by RJHinds
The evil was due to the fact that the Sons of God (the watching angels) saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful and they took all they pleased as wives and corrupted mankind to the point that they were thiking of evil things contrary to the will of God.

Only eight people were left unaffected by this corruption, and God had to save man at that tim ...[text shortened]... a good line of descent for the Messiah to come.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watcher_(angel

"Only eight people were left unaffected by this corruption,"
were they? was evil eradicated with the flood? one of noah's sons did something that warranted a generational curse after just the time it took for first grapes to grow again. noah got drunk like a pig. men build the tower of babel. soddom and gomorrah. egypt and its 10 plagues. the holocaust (the only thing real on this list). was evil eradicated? or was it just another failure from the OT god?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
"if you want to ignore the eternal consequences for what takes place in this life time that too is up to you"
if my dog craps the carpet, i smack him with the newspaper and send him to his corner. i yell at him. and i forgive him in an hour because he is a dog.


the bible says god is forgiving. you are saying that is only true as long as you are alive ...[text shortened]... ignored god for 100 years? shouldn't god just ignore the atheist for 100 years and call it even?

I think where you are in great error is you want to blow off human sin, from what it is to
something that is no big deal. You also seem to want to make God unable to be anything
other than I guess sweet to us, you know because He is love.

If God's mercy and grace takes away all of our guilt forever, why do you think his anger,
fury, and wrath wouldn't punish us for all of our crimes for as long as His mercy lasts?

Time is meaningless when speaking about forever, there isn't going to be a hundred years.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I think where you are in great error is you want to blow off human sin, from what it is to
something that is no big deal. You also seem to want to make God unable to be anything
other than I guess sweet to us, you know because He is love.

If God's mercy and grace takes away all of our guilt forever, why do you think his anger,
fury, and wrath wouldn't ...[text shortened]... ts?

Time is meaningless when speaking about forever, there isn't going to be a hundred years.

it may be a big deal. it may be a very big deal.
however
no matter how somebody sinned, it would still be a finite action. you cannot possibly consider that an infinite action would be a just punishment for a finite action.

you are a serial killer. you end 10 people. how long must you suffer before we call it "even". what is enough? would you value one human life at 1 million years of excruciating agony? it would still be more apropriate than "forever". "forever" takes a long time.

let's move to something even more tricky: atheists. according to the bible, atheists are thrown into hell. an atheist is someone who ignores god's existence. how long would you say would be appropriate to torture someone for giving you the cold shoulder? 1000 years? two thousands? do you honestly think a righteous christian (assuming it really is christians who are going to heaven, which may not be true) can enjoy heaven while atheists are roasting in hell? who would be such a psychopath?


we humans, flawed as we are, still display compassion towards criminals that have proven they reformed and are repentant. life imprisonments are often switched to lesser sentences. even murderers can go free if we believe they have been reformed. do you think an atheist wouldn't deserve parole after a MILLION years? a million years not in prison but in a torture pit?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
it may be a big deal. it may be a very big deal.
however
no matter how somebody sinned, it would still be a finite action. you cannot possibly consider that an infinite action would be a just punishment for a finite action.

you are a serial killer. you end 10 people. how long must you suffer before we call it "even". what is enough? would you value o ...[text shortened]... uldn't deserve parole after a MILLION years? a million years not in prison but in a torture pit?

I have to agree with you Zahlanzi. Theists don't seem to understand that even in the old testament the punishment fit the crime. "A tooth for a tooth", etc.
In today's legal system this would be considered cruel and unusual punishment.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
it may be a big deal. it may be a very big deal.
however
no matter how somebody sinned, it would still be a finite action. you cannot possibly consider that an infinite action would be a just punishment for a finite action.

you are a serial killer. you end 10 people. how long must you suffer before we call it "even". what is enough? would you value o ...[text shortened]... uldn't deserve parole after a MILLION years? a million years not in prison but in a torture pit?

You seem to think in terms of how things are done here for the reasons we are doing
them, not what God is doing for the reasons God is. All sinners from the repentant one's
who have asked for and received God's grace through Jesus Christ, and the
unrepentant sinners who are going to standing be standing before God to
give an account of their lives. Without God's grace and mercy your righteousness better
be as good as Jesus', but since we are all sinners that will not happen for any.

The rebellion and all who were apart of it will be left out of God's eternal Kingdom, and
they will be sent to a place prepared for the Devil and his angels.

This is not a traffic ticket, where you pay and move on, there will be no place to go, and
those in Christ's righteousness that He gives will not be worthy on their own, but will be
through Him. Those that didn't receive the great gift God gave will go to where Satan and
all of his followers go, not because a way wasn't made for them to avoid such a place,
they just refused it, or didn't receive it, and now all other choices are gone.

I think everyone who Jesus saves are as worthy of Hell as everyone who goes to Hell.
We are not saved because we are something special, we are because of Jesus Christ,
and I pray that He receives as many of us as He can, He deserves us all, but not all
will accept Him. Instead they love their sin and want to stay in it.

Originally posted by KellyJay
You seem to think in terms of how things are done here for the reasons we are doing
them, not what God is doing for the reasons God is. All sinners from the repentant one's
who have asked for and received God's grace through Jesus Christ, and the
unrepentant sinners who are going to standing be standing before God to
give an account of their lives. Wi ...[text shortened]... serves us all, but not all
will accept Him. Instead they love their sin and want to stay in it.

All sinners from the repentant one's
who have asked for and received God's grace through Jesus Christ, and the
unrepentant sinners who are also going to standing will also be standing before God to
give an account of their lives.

This is another point we will disagree on. Both groups will stand before God but for different reasons. Those who have received grace will stand before God for loss or gain of rewards.