What happened to the Dasa thread?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
3. do you think that adherence to Islam heightens or deadens the consciences
awareness?

In my experience, in the Muslim majority country I live in, for example, Islam seems to me to heighten social conscience and awareness, family structure and responsibility, respect and obedience towards parents and other elders, raising children in a moral way, neighbourhood solidarity and community values, hard work and honesty, very conservative attitudes to sexual relations etc. You've lived in a Muslim majority country too, so you will know what I am talking about.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes it was , but i still think his point was to draw attention to the illegitimacy of Islam.

If you read the OP then you will know that Dasa's point about "the illegitimacy of Islam" was based on his contention that all Muslim men are rapists and pedophiles. It was the same reason he gave for wanting a genocide of all Muslim men.

Originally posted by FMF
In my experience, in the Muslim majority country I live in, for example, Islam seems to me to heighten social conscience and awareness, family structure and responsibility, respect and obedience towards parents and other elders, raising children in a moral way, neighbourhood solidarity and community values, hard work and honesty, very conservative attitudes to s ...[text shortened]... s etc. You've lived in a Muslim majority country too, so you will know what I am talking about.

actually i have a different perception, my perception was, that while these things you
say are true, corruption is rife, oppression and violence particularly against women
exists, exploitation is rife, discrimination of all sorts, blood feuds, rapes, bombings,
reprisals, sectarian violence were all too evident. Women were segregated as far as i
can discern, for their own safety, on buses etc etc. I think Islam because it is generally
ritualistic, tends to oppress the exercise of conscience, as do all forms of ritualistic
worship.

Originally posted by FMF
If you read the OP then you will know that Dasa's point about "the illegitimacy of Islam" was based on his contention that all Muslim men are rapists and pedophiles. It was the same reason he gave for wanting a genocide of all Muslim men.

he attempted top utilise these instances to draw attention to its illegitimacy, it would
have been wiser to not have said what he said.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I think Islam because it is generally ritualistic, tends to oppress the exercise of conscience, as do all forms of ritualistic worship.

I don't agree. Crimes like rape and corruption are common the world over, from Japan to Italy, and pretty much all points in between. I don't think they have anything to do with religious rituals. My experience has not shown this to be so.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
he attempted top utilise these instances to draw attention to its illegitimacy, it would
have been wiser to not have said what he said.

Well then what is the point of your "What happened to the Dasa thread?" topic, if you already know the answer?

Originally posted by FMF
Well then what is the point of your "What happened to the Dasa thread?" topic, if you already know the answer?

I wanted to know why people objected, for it appeared to me that similar hate speech
was not alerted.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
...corruption is rife, oppression and violence particularly against women
exists, exploitation is rife, discrimination of all sorts, blood feuds, rapes, bombings, reprisals, sectarian violence were all too evident....

These things are not exclusive to any particular religion.

Originally posted by FMF
I don't agree. Crimes like rape and corruption are common the world over, from Japan to Italy, and pretty much all points in between. I don't think they have anything to do with religious rituals. My experience has not shown this to be so.

I think if you look at rates of corruption, you will find that predominately Islamic
countries have a much higher rate, with the exception of Perhaps the U.S. which is rife.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I wanted to know why people objected, for it appeared to me that similar hate speech
was not alerted.

You were told on page 1 by the reporter himself.

Originally posted by FMF
You were told on page 1 by the reporter himself.

No i was told why he alerted it, that did not answer why other hate speech was permitted.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I think if you look at rates of corruption, you will find that predominately Islamic countries have a much higher rate

Not really. The bottom third of the countries according to the Corruption Perceptions Index are a pretty diverse bunch stretched across South America, Africa and Asia.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
No i was told why he alerted it, that did not answer why other hate speech was permitted.

Whether it was perceived to be hate speech - and whether or not there ought to be a deletion - was a matter for the site's administrators. So perhaps your question was better submitted by the site's feedback facility. Any subscriber can alert anything they want. Maybe nobody alerted the stuff you are talking about, or maybe the site's owners didn't think it was worthy of a deletion.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Did some namby pamby secular liberal like Finnegan alert it because it did not sit right
with his Islamophile sensibilities? What happened to free speech? We get enough hate
speech from the anti-christians here, your God is like Hitler etc etc, yet the posts
remain, so why remove Dasas post?

Just noticed this and thought I'd answer.

I do not recall alerting the moderator recently, though I have done in the past and possibly the moderator took into account a history of such reports before acting. Not before time in my opinion. I would prefer also that they acted on some of the more distressing sexism exhibited in recent debates.

I have set out in enough detail why I consider "hate speech" to be outside the boundary of "free speech" and capable of being in itself violent. This is well recognized outside of the USA. For minorities in the US these must be horrible times.

I have also set out, with references to external sites, why I regard Islamaphobia to be a form of racism and the purpose I consider it serves in providing cover for American and British militarism, including the current use of drones to terrorize the people of Pakistan and the torture and abuse of prisoners in contravention of the Geneva Convention on Human Rights. America and Britain need an enemy to justify astonishing and quite crazy levels of military spending.

I also pointed out the long-standing and appalling violence between Hindu and Muslim extremists in India and the evidence of Indian Hindu extremists seeking to export their violence to other countries, notably Britain, where they have been known to team up with the British National Party and the English Defence League in vilifying Muslims as a cover for sectarian violence.

I see no reason to go over all that in the same detail here since the same people have featured in the earlier debates.

It is amusing for an atheist to be described as an "Islamophile". I take it as a compliment. With friends like me do they even need enemies?

The complex phrase "namby pamby secular liberal" possibly works with American audiences, summing up all your ideological moral panics in one clumsy expression, but frankly to other ears it sounds quite pathetic as a term of abuse. Besides, you leave out "Marxist" and "socialist" from the list which is a wasted opportunity surely?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I think if you look at rates of corruption, you will find that predominately Islamic
countries have a much higher rate, with the exception of Perhaps the U.S. which is rife.

I resent your comment that corruption is rife in the US. Consider countries like Russia after the fall of communism and some African countries where corruption is the norm, you want to build that building? You apply a little financial grease to me, the mayor. THAT is rife in many countries in Africa.

There certainly are states in the US worse in that respect, Georgia and Kentucky stand out as high on the corruption scale, not a subjective argument but the fact that many many politicians have ended up in jail in those two states, and the ex governor of Illinois, Blagojevich, who just went to jail trying to sell Obama's senatorial seat when he left to run for the presidency. Those things certainly happen but not like in Russia or some countries in Africa where it literally is the way of life.