What happens....

i just want you to imagine this scenario. You are born some place far away from Christianity. You have absolutely no clue about it. You live a full life in accordance to your culture. When you die, next thing you know, you are suffering in some hell. Can't you imagine the complete confusion that person would go through? Where exactly did you go wrong? I cannot see how God is loving and just with a strict view in believing Jesus is the only way. Where are my flaws?

Originally posted by Zander 88
Are you saying free will is an illusion?

If this is a 2-part process, then aren't the people born away from Christianity being robbed of their free will?

Are you saying free will is an illusion?

The one choice we do have is between two slave-masters:

"Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living" (Romans 6:16).

If this is a 2-part process, then aren't the people born away from Christianity being robbed of their free will?

"And the Good News about the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, so that all nations will hear it; and then the end will come" (Matthew 24:14).

"And then he [Jesus] told them, “Go into all the world and preach the Good News to everyone. Anyone who believes and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to believe will be condemned"" (Mark 16:15-16).

"When the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus" (2 Thessalonians 1:7-8).

"My ambition has always been to preach the Good News where the name of Christ has never been heard, rather than where a church has already been started by someone else. I have been following the plan spoken of in the Scriptures, where it says, “Those who have never been told about him will see, and those who have never heard of him will understand" (Romans 15:20-21).

"For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them? And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent?" (Romans 10:13-15).

"But you don’t believe me because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me, for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. No one can snatch them from the Father’s hand" (John 10:26-29).
____________________________________________________________________

God sends His messengers where ever they will be effective. I trust God to do that. Your hypothetical model of someone out of reach of God and the Good News of the Gospel is just that, hypothetical. What is the reality? None can say for sure. Personally, I trust that God sends His messengers anywhere His Message will be received.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
[b]Are you saying free will is an illusion?

The one choice we do have is between two slave-masters:

"Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living" (Romans 6:16).

If this is a 2-part process, then a ly, I trust that God sends His messengers anywhere His Message will be received.

God sends His messengers where ever they will be effective. I trust God to do that. Your hypothetical model of someone out of reach of God and the Good News of the Gospel is just that, hypothetical. What is the reality? None can say for sure. Personally, I trust that God sends His messengers anywhere His Message will be received.

This is not hypothetical, this is reality. Not to be harsh, but are you really that naive to believe that as soon as Jesus left this world, his message was spread to all corners of the Earth? So, are you going to condemn all those unable to recieve the word due to location as damned? This would be against God's will since they were never given the chance to accept or reject Jesus.

Originally posted by Zander 88
to the people who have never heard of God or the bible. They have never had the opportunity to read the bible, given their remote location. They have never met a Christian in their life. What will happen to them? Basically, there's a whole lot of people you have to consider. As soon as Jesus died and left his message, everyone had to believe or perish. So, ...[text shortened]... e to their good chance of location near Jesus. Is this a just and loving God, or a God of luck?

I believe Jebus went to Hell and told the people who never heard of him that their salvation lies with Him. Those who chose to believe were saved. Those who weren't are still there.

Sorry if this has been posted before.

Originally posted by Zander 88
This is not hypothetical, this is reality. Not to be harsh, but are you really that naive to believe that as soon as Jesus left this world, his message was spread to all corners of the Earth? So, are you going to condemn all those unable to recieve the word due to location as damned? This would be against God's will since they were never given the chance to accept or reject Jesus.

Not to be harsh, but are you really that naive to believe that as soon as Jesus left this world, his message was spread to all corners of the Earth?

I never said that 'as soon as Jesus left this world' His message was spread to all corners of the Earth. What I am saying is, His message will eventually be spread to all corners of the Earth, wherever His message will be received. For instance, it is recorded in 1 Peter how Jesus, in Spirit, preached to the disobedient people in Noah's day, before the flood, and eight people received His message:

"Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit. So he went and preached to the spirits in prison—those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood. That is why the Good News was preached to those who are now dead—so although they were destined to die like all people, they now live forever with God in the Spirit" (1 Peter 3:18-20; 4:6).

Those who have never heard the Gospel and died in their sins are preached to by Jesus Christ in the spirit, even after they have died. Everybody gets a chance to hear the Gospel at least once and respond. However, this does not mean that after hearing the Gospel while one is alive and rejecting it that one will have a second chance to respond after death:

"And just as each person is destined to die once and after that comes judgment, so also Christ died once for all time as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to all who are eagerly waiting for him" (Romans 9:27-28).

Originally posted by epiphinehas
[b]Not to be harsh, but are you really that naive to believe that as soon as Jesus left this world, his message was spread to all corners of the Earth?

I never said that 'as soon as Jesus left this world' His message was spread to all corners of the Earth. What I am saying is, His message will eventually be spread to all corners of the Earth, whe ur sins, but to bring salvation to all who are eagerly waiting for him" (Romans 9:27-28).[/b]

Those who have never heard the Gospel and died in their sins are preached to by Jesus Christ in the spirit, even after they have died.

Can you provide scripture to support this claim?

Originally posted by Zander 88
Those who have never heard the Gospel and died in their sins are preached to by Jesus Christ in the spirit, even after they have died.

Can you provide scripture to support this claim?

I just did:

"Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit. So he went and preached to the spirits in prison—those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood. That is why the Good News was preached to those who are now dead—so although they were destined to die like all people, they now live forever with God in the Spirit" (1 Peter 3:18-20; 4:6).

Originally posted by epiphinehas
I just did:

"Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit. So he went and preached to the spirits in prison—those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only ei ...[text shortened]... die like all people, they now live forever with God in the Spirit" (1 Peter 3:18-20; 4:6).[/b]

My bad, I kept looking at the bottom thinking that was in support of your second paragraph.

Isn't this specifically talking about the dead before Jesus came? It doesn't talk about after Jesus' time.

Originally posted by Zander 88
My bad, I kept looking at the bottom thinking that was in support of your second paragraph.

Isn't this specifically talking about the dead before Jesus came? It doesn't talk about after Jesus' time.

Sorry, I shouldn't have meshed 1 Peter 3:18-20 with 1 Peter 4:6. In context it reads:

"But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit" (1 Peter 4:5-6).

The reason Christ is 'ready to judge the living and the dead' is because all people, both living and dead, have had (will have) the gospel preached to them. I would say that this includes people nowadays who die without ever hearing about Christ. Why not? If God is omnipresent, would it be any more difficult to preach to someone today than it would be five thousand years ago?

Originally posted by slappy115
I believe Jebus went to Hell and told the people who never heard of him that their salvation lies with Him. Those who chose to believe were saved. Those who weren't are still there.

Sorry if this has been posted before.

I had forgotten about that. Perfect timing...

Originally posted by epiphinehas
Sorry, I shouldn't have meshed 1 Peter 3:18-20 with 1 Peter 4:6. In context it reads:

"But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God i ...[text shortened]... be any more difficult to preach to someone today than it would be five thousand years ago?

Don't you think it is a lot easier to believe in Jesus after you've died? Sounds like people who heard Christianity while living got the short end of the stick...

Luke 12:48- "But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much more will be demended; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked."

So... 🙂

People will still go to hell, even if they know nothing at all about Jesus or God's love. Their punishment will ot be as severe, but they will still be punished.

Can we as Christians let these people who know nothing about Jesus die and go to hell without a chance of salvation? How comfortable are you with the thought that thousands of people die every day, many of them probably knowing nothing about Jesus and going to hell, and that you have the knowledge to help them?

Originally posted by Zander 88
Don't you think it is a lot easier to believe in Jesus after you've died? Sounds like people who heard Christianity while living got the short end of the stick...

"And when people escape from the wickedness of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and then get tangled up and enslaved by sin again, they are worse off than before. It would be better if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then reject the command they were given to live a holy life. They prove the truth of this proverb: “A dog returns to its vomit.” And another says, “A washed pig returns to the mud"" (2 Peter 2:20-22).

"And a servant who knows what the master wants, but isn’t prepared and doesn’t carry out those instructions, will be severely punished. But someone who does not know, and then does something wrong, will be punished only lightly. When someone has been given much, much will be required in return; and when someone has been entrusted with much, even more will be required" (Luke 12:47-48).

So yeah sorry for not reading the whole thread all the way through but if you supposedly get the 'short end of the stick' then you should help other people get the short end of the stick

Originally posted by epiphinehas
"And when people escape from the wickedness of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and then get tangled up and enslaved by sin again, they are worse off than before. It would be better if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then reject the command they were given to live a holy life. They prove the truth of ...[text shortened]... and when someone has been entrusted with much, even more will be required" (Luke 12:47-48).

A couple of questions came to me, but they aren't appropriate to ask in this thread. I would say you answered the question, but it isn't satisfactory to me. Anyways, thanks for your time.