Originally posted by @rajk999 Jesus said to pray to God, His Father.
Jesus's role is intercession or a go-between man and God.
More proof that Jesus is saying clearly that He is NOT GOD
As usual you are wrong, and I know you dont give a damn, because you have a multitude of reasons why you pray to Jesus... none of which many sense, neither are they biblical.
I found this quotation useful in dealing with what we are discussing here.
The Lord Jesus Christ was the God-Man. The Divine and human natures, without merging into each other and without changing, “undivided and unseparated” (the dogma of the Chalcedonian Council) were united in Him in one Person. In accordance with His two natures, the Lord also had two wills. As God, Jesus Christ was of one substance with God the Father and had one Will with Him and the Holy Spirit. But as perfect man, consisting of a soul and a body, the Lord also had human feelings and a human will. His human will was completely obedient to His Divine will. The Lord subjected His human will to the Divine will - He sought only to do the will of the Heavenly Father (John 5:30); His spiritual food was “to do the will of Him Who sent Me and to finish His work” (John 4: 34). But the work which was set before Him to finish was greater than any other, and even unfeeling, soulless nature was bound to be amazed at it. It was necessary for Him to redeem man from sin and death, and reestablish the union of man with God. It was necessary that the sinless Savior should take upon Himself all human Sin, so that He, Who had no sins of His own, should feel the weight of the sin of all humanity and sorrow over it in such a way as was possible only for complete holiness, which clearly feels even the slightest deviation from the commandments and Will of God. It was necessary that He, in Whom Divinity and humanity were hypostatically united, should in His holy, sinless humanity experience the full horror of the distancing of man from his Creator, of the split between sinful humanity and the source of holiness and light - God. The depth of the fall of mankind must have stood before His eyes at that moment; for man, who in paradise did not want to obey God and who listened to the devil’s slander against Him, would now rise up against his Divine Savior, slander Him, and, having declared Him unworthy to live upon the earth, would hang Him on a tree between heaven and earth, thereby subjecting Him to the curse of the God-given law (Deut. 21:22-23). It was necessary that the sinless Righteous One, rejected by the sinful world for which and at the hands of which He was suffering, should forgive mankind this evil deed and turn to the Heavenly Father with a prayer that the Divine righteousness should forgive mankind, blinded by the devil, this rejection of its Creator and Savior. Such a holy prayer could not fail to be heard, such a power of love was bound to unite the source of love, God, with those who even now would feel this love, and, understanding how far the ways of men had departed from the ways of God, would manifest a strong determination to return to God the Father through the Creator’s reception of human nature.
Here is the link: http://trueorthodoxy.info/pat_what_christ_pray_about_stjohnmaximovitch.shtml
This is a really difficult topic because the Trinity involves a lot of effort to fully understand. I think I iwll make this a dsicussion topic for my group at Church on Sunday.
Originally posted by @jacob-verville I found this quotation useful in dealing with what we are discussing here.
[quote]The Lord Jesus Christ was the God-Man. The Divine and human natures, without merging into each other and without changing, “undivided and unseparated” (the dogma of the Chalcedonian Council) were united in Him in one Person. In accordance with His two natures, the L ...[text shortened]... fully understand. I think I iwll make this a dsicussion topic for my group at Church on Sunday.
No thanks. Keep your false doctrine to yourself.
No true doctrine is difficult to understand.
It is false doctrines that require lengthy convoluted explanations.
Originally posted by @ogb What is the need for three parts? what's wrong with just one ?
It's probably linked - psychologically speaking - to the longstanding insistence on the Bible only being in Latin - create a class of sanctified, pretentious very-holy-men with thanks-to-them-being-boffins access to mysterious texts and spectacularly contrived and deliberately opaque doctrines. Just witness how hostile and pouty sonship ~ who one of the most fastidiously self-anointed 'priests' I have ever come across online - is on that other thread where he's been tackled for revelling in his own self-aggrandizing overcomplications.
Originally posted by @rajk999 Jesus said to pray to God, His Father.
Jesus's role is intercession or a go-between man and God.
More proof that Jesus is saying clearly that He is NOT GOD
As usual you are wrong, and I know you dont give a damn, because you have a multitude of reasons why you pray to Jesus... none of which many sense, neither are they biblical.
Originally posted by @galveston75 One thing I've noticed with ones like our friend here is that it seems they like this "mystery" aspect of what they feel the holy spirit is which is also the trinity. I have a couple cousins that are ministers and the more I discuss this with them is the "more mysterious" it gets. I also know this is just a cop out because they can't explain it.
I als ...[text shortened]... ld over their subjects. These mysterious teachings could never be understood by the uneducated.
Originally posted by @rajk999 Jesus said to pray to God, His Father.
Jesus's role is intercession or a go-between man and God.
More proof that Jesus is saying clearly that He is NOT GOD
As usual you are wrong, and I know you dont give a damn, because you have a multitude of reasons why you pray to Jesus... none of which many sense, neither are they biblical.
How many “alpha and omegas” are there in your opinion?
Originally posted by @divegeester You just did, but in a backhanded, passive-aggressive sort of way, rather than a forthright, straight up front sort of way.
Ok, I'm sorry if it seemed like that was my intent.
It wasn't.
I hope that I didn't offend anyone.
Also, I think you aren't fairly judging my intent consistently, so may be, brother, you should stop trying to judge me that way.
Originally posted by @rajk999 No thanks. Keep your false doctrine to yourself.
No true doctrine is difficult to understand.
It is false doctrines that require lengthy convoluted explanations.
So what is yoir stance, then, and then how can you square the belief in the trinity. In the bible?
Originally posted by @jacob-verville So what is yoir stance, then, and then how can you square the belief in the trinity. In the bible?
I believe in these same three entities. I just do not believe they are equal.
Three separate and distinct entities, God, Jesus, Holy Spirit.
Three separate functions but one in purpose.
Originally posted by @rajk999 I believe in these same three entities. I just do not believe they are equal.
Three separate and distinct entities, God, Jesus, Holy Spirit.
Three separate functions but one in purpose.
Alright. I think that is called modalism..
This is really one of my weak points. I do not really know how to comment extensively on it. I will try to learn about it more in the coming months and hopefully, at some point, we can have a discussion.
I know that we believe in three distinct persons with two natures and two wills, and that they are all God but also distinct from God...
IDK, it's a very hard topic. I'll let you know fi I ever make any progress on it, lol.
Originally posted by @jacob-verville Alright. I think that is called modalism..
This is really one of my weak points. I do not really know how to comment extensively on it. I will try to learn about it more in the coming months and hopefully, at some point, we can have a discussion.
I know that we believe in three distinct persons with two natures and two wills, and that they ar ...[text shortened]... od...
IDK, it's a very hard topic. I'll let you know fi I ever make any progress on it, lol.
Here is a clear statement from Paul which is supported in hundreds of other passages.
.. the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (1 Corinthians 11:3 KJV)
No mystery whatsoever. Its simple,. straightforward and it makes sense.
WHAT is the holy spirit? The question seems straightforward enough, but finding a simple answer may prove difficult. Pope Benedict XVI told a crowd in Australia: “A clear understanding of the Spirit almost seems beyond our reach.”
Certainly there are many opinions and much uncertainty when it comes to the question, What is the holy spirit? Following are some typical replies:
• A real person who lives inside Christ’s disciples.
• Divine science, a law of God in action.
• God’s presence at work in the world.
• The third person of the Trinity.
Why such confusion? It dates back to the fourth century C.E. when some theologians claimed that the holy spirit was a person who was somehow equal to God. This, however, was not an idea taught in the Scriptures or by the early followers of Christ. The New Catholic Encyclopedia explains: “The Old Testament clearly does not envisage God’s spirit as a person . . . God’s spirit is simply God’s power.” The same source adds: “The majority of New Testament texts reveal God’s spirit as something, not someone; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God.”
Understandably, people find it hard to think of a power as a person. Thus, a recent survey in the United States revealed that most people reject the idea that the holy spirit is a person or a “living entity.” Are they right? Or should we believe the theologians who insist that “the Holy Ghost is a Person really distinct as such from the Father and the Son”?
To get a reliable answer, we need to go to God’s Word, the Bible, which describes the holy spirit in detail. The apostle Paul wrote: “All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching the truth, rebuking error.”​—2 Timothy 3:16, Today’s English Version.
what is Holy Ghost?
31 Jan '18 00:16
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