Originally posted by kirksey957Well, you asked me a vague question 🙂
Those are all very general in nature. Let me be specific with some examples. In your belief systen is it permissible for women to preach in church? Is it a sin for women to have short hair? Should women be isolated while on their period?
Although this thread was opened with the question "What is salvation?", we've been discussing Spiritual gifts.
If you want to discuss other issues, maybe a new thread would be appropriate. What do you think?
Regards
Originally posted by xpoferensPerhaps the nature of salvation takes on different meanings at different times. It is the nature of threads to change course like any discussion. I will start a new thread.
Well, you asked me a vague question 🙂
Although this thread was opened with the question "What is salvation?", we've been discussing Spiritual gifts.
If you want to discuss other issues, maybe a new thread would be appropriate. What do you think?
Regards
4 edits
Originally posted by KellyJayHi KellyJay,
[b]Begining of my quote
The modern-day “tongue-speakers” or glossolalists, as they are often called, would have us believe that “their gift” comes from God; but it is apparent that it comes not from God but from man. The observations of Dr. John Kilbahl, a psycho-therapist who conducted a 10 year in-depth study of these modern-day tongue speakers, illus in the light of day, if it must be hid in the dark we have something
to worry about.
Kelly
... You must be able to show me in scripture the points you have made and todate you have to read into the Word your beliefs not simply accept what is there as it is.
I've been reading and accepting what the Scriptures say.
These gifts would cease when what is complete would come, as opposed to what is in part.
Partial knowledge and partial prophecy is contrasted with what is complete/perfect; I can only assume Paul is referring to complete knowledge and complete prophecy.
I Corinthians 13
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part;
10 but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away.
You are saying the manifestations of the Spirit of God today are not really from God, if they are not of God what are they from?
Yes, I'm saying these manifestations are not from God.
Anyway, I never said these manifestations were spiritual in nature.
Nevertheless, since they are not from God and since naturally these movements have a Christian/spiritual/religious conotation, IMHO, they are influenced by the adversary, since they are preaching a different Gospel.
Jesus said it was important for Him to go so that the Holy Spirit would come to us, that the Holy Spirit would lead us and teach us that is an important part of why Jesus left.
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come. (emphasis mine).
I understand "all truth" as being the complete knowledge/prophecy Paul was refering to when he contrasted it to "what is in part".
We already had written text in the Old Testament and even with the written text of the Old Testament there were movements of God with man during those times too.
That's a good example, but it makes my point, not yours, since the same thing happened while the books of the New Testament were being written... However, the Word is now finished.
Puting it another way, when God inspired writers to write His Word, He was present (both during the writing of the Old and New Testaments), when that work finished, He "became" absent (absent naturally, regarding revelation of new knowledge and supernatural gifts).
As FreakyKBH has said "The gibberish that they spew is little more than ecstatics unrelated to anything spiritual. While we do not need the confirmation of any field of science to determine the spiritual validity of any human experience, the study cited nonetheless simply confirms what the Bible has taught regarding tongues."
Remember, these tongues were used to spread the gospel unto nations and people that knew not Hebrew nor Greek. We are talking about real languages, not some gibberish. They were also used as an evidence to unbelievers.
Paul in I Corinthians 14 is talking about languages that make sense:
7 Even things without life, giving a voice, whether pipe or harp, if they give not a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain voice, who shall prepare himself for war?
9 So also ye, unless ye utter by the tongue speech easy to understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye will be speaking into the air.
Take care.
[EDIT: I don't know what is wrong with this post, since all text appears in bold. Please notice KJ's citations are in italic]
1 edit
Originally posted by xpoferensSo this doesn't become a book I am going to break it up into smaller
Hi KellyJay,
... You must be able to show me in scripture the points you have made and todate you have to read into the Word your beliefs not simply accept what is there as it is.
I've been reading and accepting what the Scriptures say.
These gifts would cease when what is complete would come, as opposed to what is in part.
Partial knowle s post, since all text appears in bold. Please notice KJ's citations are in italic]
pieces, hope you do not mind. FYI, when everything turns up bold,
just put a [] with a /b in the middle of them at the start of the first
line, typically that will restore it normal text. It happens to me from
time to time so I edit and fix it.
I've been reading and accepting what the Scriptures say.
These gifts would cease when what is complete would come, as opposed to what is in part.
Partial knowledge and partial prophecy is contrasted with what is complete/perfect; I can only assume Paul is referring to complete knowledge and complete prophecy.
I understand you keep the same argument up and going, taking the
position that partial knowledge is replaced by complete knowledge
and so on; however, your doing that is my point. It isn’t enough to
suggest what you are saying, the link must be make within scripture
showing me that the ‘completeness’ that was being spoken about was
the last of the text to written, making that scripture written the last of
scripture to be written. Without more than your opinion on that
means, what we are left with is this type of argument, my son cannot
fly by flapping his arms, so apples are vegetables. One does not
have anything to do with other, there must be a linkage within
scripture where the ‘complete’ is the last of the scripture to be written,
so when I ask you to show me this all I’ve been getting from you is
more argument about how what is partial or incomplete isn’t as good
as something complete, which I have to say okay, but what does that
have to with the subject at hand, show me why you think within
scripture this is the case without reading into it something that isn’t
there, where is it written within scripture this is true, if you cannot do
that you are in danger of adding to scripture your point of view and
causes scriptural test to be ignored as it is written. I can show you
scripture that tells us to seek out the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and there
is no doubt about what or who we are talking about the text is quite
plain.
Kelly
1 edit
Originally posted by xpoferens
Hi KellyJay,
... You must be able to show me in scripture the points you have made and todate you have to read into the Word your beliefs not simply accept what is there as it is.
I've been reading and accepting what the Scriptures say.
These gifts would cease when what is complete would come, as opposed to what is in part.
Partial knowle s post, since all text appears in bold. Please notice KJ's citations are in italic]
Yes, I'm saying these manifestations are not from God.
Anyway, I never said these manifestations were spiritual in nature.
Nevertheless, since they are not from God and since naturally these movements have a Christian/spiritual/religious conotation, IMHO, they are influenced by the adversary, since they are preaching a different Gospel.
Okay, the gifts of the Spirit of God spoken of within scripture are not
from God if they are happening today according to you. You think I
suppose they are satanic in nature though you didn’t use the word,
correct me if I’m wrong. You believe there are movements within
groups that accept the gifts of the Spirit promote a different Gospel,
but is that also true of groups that do not promote the gifts of the
Spirit today too? The devil is going to attempt to influence man where
ever man is to achieve his end, which is just what the devil does. So
unless you want to get specific as to what group and what different
gospel you are talking about and so on, I have no idea what you are
referring too, your complaint isn’t very specific it is vague I cannot
address it directly.
Kelly
2 edits
Originally posted by xpoferens
Hi KellyJay,
... You must be able to show me in scripture the points you have made and todate you have to read into the Word your beliefs not simply accept what is there as it is.
I've been reading and accepting what the Scriptures say.
These gifts would cease when what is complete would come, as opposed to what is in part.
Partial knowle s post, since all text appears in bold. Please notice KJ's citations are in italic]
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come. (emphasis mine).
I understand "all truth" as being the complete knowledge/prophecy Paul was refering to when he contrasted it to "what is in part".
*I tried to keep the emphasis you put in scripture there for your
point to be made as you wanted it*
You are doing it again, the Holy Spirit is coming to guide us into all
truth, the manifestations of the Spirit if referred to as the gifts of the
Spirit, you cannot be guided unless you following, your linkage of the
words ‘all truth’ to ‘scriptural text’ still has not be made scripturally
only in you expressing your opinion so far. I have an opinion on what
that particular piece of scripture in Corinthians is referring too as well,
but I do admit I’m guessing. I believe it to speaking of the time when
none of the gifts are needed, when the loin lays down with the lamb,
when we no longer have to deal with sickness, lies, betrayals, when
the sin nature of man is replaced by the new man where are nature is
incorruptible, when the universe no longer has to deal with the
brokenness of sin in either the spiritual world or the physical one,
that in my opinion is when those gifts are no longer required and will
go away. I believe there is a stronger case to be made for this time
to be the time that was being spoken about than what you keep
bringing up, at least this is discussed in scripture as an up coming
event and time where things do change.
Kelly
P.S.
More to come when I have more time.
1 edit
Originally posted by xpoferensWe already had written text in the Old Testament and even with the written text of the Old Testament there were movements of God with man during those times too.
Hi KellyJay,
... You must be able to show me in scripture the points you have made and todate you have to read into the Word your beliefs not simply accept what is there as it is.
I've been reading and accepting what the Scriptures say.
These gifts would cease when what is complete would come, as opposed to what is in part.
Partial knowle s post, since all text appears in bold. Please notice KJ's citations are in italic]
That's a good example, but it makes my point, not yours, since the same thing happened while the books of the New Testament were being written... However, the Word is now finished.
Puting it another way, when God inspired writers to write His Word, He was present (both during the writing of the Old and New Testaments), when that work finished, He "became" absent (absent naturally, regarding revelation of new knowledge and supernatural gifts).
This is again your opinion that God is finished with inspiring the
written word, I actually disagree with that completely. Most of the
writers of the text within scripture were not setting out to ‘Write the
Bible’ they were just writing about times and events that they were
apart of and the truths that were manifest within those writings we are
using as our canon. There could be times you write about times and
events where God moved in your life that God could use to influence
the lives of others. I’m not at all suggesting we look around for new
letters from Christians to add to the Bible, but God isn’t done working
in the lives of people so I do not see how even in this what you are
talking about is reasonable. God would have to be completely absent
from all of His people when they write about what He has done in their
lives to ‘not inspire’ a writing. You seem to have God as an absentee
entity in the lives of His people, but scripture teaches us that Jesus is
the Good Shepherd, that wouldn’t be true if He wasn’t actively involved
in leading us and guiding us now would it?
Kelly
3 edits
Originally posted by xpoferensAs FreakyKBH has said "The gibberish that they spew is little more than ecstatics unrelated to anything spiritual. While we do not need the confirmation of any field of science to determine the spiritual validity of any human experience, the study cited nonetheless simply confirms what the Bible has taught regarding tongues."
Hi KellyJay,
... You must be able to show me in scripture the points you have made and todate you have to read into the Word your beliefs not simply accept what is there as it is.
I've been reading and accepting what the Scriptures say.
These gifts would cease when what is complete would come, as opposed to what is in part.
Partial knowle s post, since all text appears in bold. Please notice KJ's citations are in italic]
Remember, these tongues were used to spread the gospel unto nations and people that knew not Hebrew nor Greek. We are talking about real languages, not some gibberish. They were also used as an evidence to unbelievers.
Paul in I Corinthians 14 is talking about languages that make sense:
7 Even things without life, giving a voice, whether pipe or harp, if they give not a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain voice, who shall prepare himself for war?
9 So also ye, unless ye utter by the tongue speech easy to understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye will be speaking into the air.
There are different gifts of tongues; there are times when tongues are
used in the assembly when another can interpret what was said, and
other times when it is just between you and God. As far as it sounding
like just gibberish goes, there are a lot of languages throughout the
world where they sound like gibberish to those that do not know the
language so having someone say it is just gibberish doesn’t mean it
isn’t a language and has no meaning, only that it does not have a
meaning to them. What Paul was speaking about in Corinthians 14
let us look at the text in front of what you quoted too.
Corinthians 14: 1-9
Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation. One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church. Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.
The portion of scripture you used tells us to seek this out and talks
about for personal edification and for the edification of the Body of
Christ when taken in context.
Kelly
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayCorinthians 14: 1-9
[b]As FreakyKBH has said "The gibberish that they spew is little more than ecstatics unrelated to anything spiritual. While we do not need the confirmation of any field of science to determine the spiritual validity of any human experience, the study cited nonetheless simply confirms what the Bible has taught regarding tongues."
Remember, these tongues ...[text shortened]... sonal edification and for the edification of the Body of
Christ when taken in context.
Kelly
Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation. One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church. Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying. But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of prophecy or of teaching? Yet even lifeless things, either flute or harp, in producing a sound, if they do not produce a distinction in the tones, how will it be known what is played on the flute or on the harp? For if the bugle produces an indistinct sound, who will prepare himself for battle? So also you, unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear, how will it be known what is spoken? for you will be speaking into the air. [/b]
Sorry I was in a hurry this morning trying to get these posts written,
and after reading them I wish I could correct a few things I screwed
up on, actually more than a few. 🙁 I meant to quote the whole text
and didn't, sorry my bad.
Kelly
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayHi KellyJay,
[b]
Yes, I'm saying these manifestations are not from God.
Anyway, I never said these manifestations were spiritual in nature.
Nevertheless, since they are not from God and since naturally these movements have a Christian/spiritual/religious conotation, IMHO, they are influenced by the adversary, since they are preaching a different Gospel.
...[text shortened]... rring too, your complaint isn’t very specific it is vague I cannot
address it directly.
Kelly[/b]
I'll try to answer your posts whenever I can. I'll start with this one.
Okay, the gifts of the Spirit of God spoken of within scripture are not
from God if they are happening today according to you. You think I
suppose they are satanic in nature though you didn’t use the word,
correct me if I’m wrong.
No KellyJay, I didn't say they were satanic, I said they can have the adversary's influence (being deceived by satan) but not be satanic in nature; that's what I meant when I said: "I never said these manifestations were spiritual in nature."
But then again, in some cases (with some people) I cannot say whether they are satanic or not; I think I have to study this issue better.
But as I said, I have no doubts regarding the "fact" that they are deceived.
You believe there are movements within groups that accept the gifts of the Spirit promote a different Gospel, but is that also true of groups that do not promote the gifts of the Spirit today too?
Correct, I believe that is also true to many groups that do not promote today these supernatural gifts of the Spirit.
The devil is going to attempt to influence man where ever man is to achieve his end, which is just what the devil does. So unless you want to get specific as to what group and what different gospel you are talking about and so on, I have no idea what you are referring too, your complaint isn’t very specific it is vague I cannot address it directly.
You're right, I was vague. When I used the expression "a different gospel", I meant something like a "health and wealth" or a "prosperity gospel"; at least several of these groups preach something like it.
First, these groups teach modern-day supernatural gifts, and as you know, I think they've ceased.
Second, they put a lot of emphasis on material things, rather than spiritual.
I'm not saying this happens in all groups, but it happens in the ones I know.
Take care
3 edits
Originally posted by xpoferensThe devil is going to attempt to influence man where ever man is to achieve his end, which is just what the devil does. So unless you want to get specific as to what group and what different gospel you are talking about and so on, I have no idea what you are referring too, your complaint isn’t very specific it is vague I cannot address it directly.
Hi KellyJay,
I'll try to answer your posts whenever I can. I'll start with this one.
[b]Okay, the gifts of the Spirit of God spoken of within scripture are not
from God if they are happening today according to you. You think I
suppose they are satanic in nature though you didn’t use the word,
correct me if I’m wrong.
No KellyJay, I didn't s ng this happens in all groups, but it happens in the ones I know.
Take care[/b]
You're right, I was vague. When I used the expression "a different gospel", I meant something like a "health and wealth" or a "prosperity gospel"; at least several of these groups preach something like it.
First, these groups teach modern-day supernatural gifts, and as you know, I think they've ceased.
Second, they put a lot of emphasis on material things, rather than spiritual.
I'm not saying this happens in all groups, but it happens in the ones I know.
Take care
Almost no argument from me here in this one I’m almost in complete
agreement with you, when the preaching that centers on treating God
like some genie in a bottle to get all you can get out of Him, because
we are so special the emphasis is on completely the wrong thing, and
in truth sets up people up for major falls too since the foundation isn’t
on the truth. God does not dance for our whims to do our bidding so
we have ‘things.’ If the appeal is towards the greed of man not the
righteousness and love of God, it isn’t something I want to be a part
of, and that type of teaching will not stand up in life when the storms
come.
I understand you think the gifts have ceased, but what bothered me
was the use of the term different gospel, I see now where you are
coming from and I agree with you, except that part where the gifts
have ceased. I also want to say simply because some of the groups
that teach these things believe that the gifts are for today, does not
add to or take away from the discussion that the gifts are real, any
more than finding counterfeit money proves there isn't real money.
Kelly
edit: I will wait for you to respond to the other posts, I wanted to tell
you we at least agreed here for the most part.
3 edits
Originally posted by KellyJay[/b]Hi Kelly, here is another answer.
We already had written text in the Old Testament and even with the written text of the Old Testament there were movements of God with man during those times too.
[b]That's a good example, but it makes my point, not yours, since the same thing happened while the books of the New Testament were being written... However, the Word is now finished.
n’t be true if He wasn’t actively involved
in leading us and guiding us now would it?
Kelly
This is again your opinion that God is finished with inspiring the
written word, I actually disagree with that completely.
Well, no scriptures have been added to the Bible. The apostles and early disciples had the signs to prove who they were and that their writings were inspired, we haven't.
Most of the writers of the text within scripture were not setting out to ‘Write the Bible’ they were just writing about times and events that they were apart of and the truths that were manifest within those writings we are using as our canon.
Yes, in a way I agree. That is what I meant when I said Paul was addressing a specific problem with supernatural gifts in the Church of Corinth. That letter was in first instance addressed to them, naturally with general lessons to the whole of mankind.
However, I disagree when you say they "were not setting out to ‘Write the Bible’", since it seems they knew they were writing Scripture.
Please notice the following scriptures (emphasis mine).
II Peter 3
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote unto you;
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Notice the reference to Paul's epistles and to the expresssion "the other scriptures", meaning that Peter considered Paul's writings as scripture as well; please notice as well that Peter said those people were wresting with these scriptures "unto their own destruction".
Other passages:
I Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Spirit teacheth; combining spiritual things with spiritual words.
They knew they were inspired.
I Thessalonians 2:13 And for this cause we also thank God without ceasing, that, when ye received from us the word of the message, even the word of God, ye accepted it not as the word of men, but, as it is in truth, the word of God, which also worketh in you that believe.
I Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we that are alive, that are left unto the coming of the Lord, shall in no wise precede them that are fallen asleep.
I Corinthians 11:23 For I received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was betrayed took bread;
I Timothy 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn. And, The laborer is worthy of his hire.
Here, Paul is quoting from both Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7, and considering them both as scripture.
II Timothy 3
15 And that from a babe thou hast known the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness.
17 That the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work.
Paul might have started by mentioning Old Testament scriptures, but then he said: "every scripture"; since we have seen New Testament writers considered their writings as scripture, it must follow he was referring to New Testament writings as well.
There could be times you write about times and events where God moved in your life that God could use to influence the lives of others. I’m not at all suggesting we look around for new letters from Christians to add to the Bible, but God isn’t done working in the lives of people so I do not see how even in this what you are talking about is reasonable.
KJ, I never said God stopped working in the lives of people; what I said is that supernatural spiritual gifts are over.
God would have to be completely absent from all of His people when they write about what He has done in their lives to ‘not inspire’ a writing.
Writing a (in a sense) "inspired" letter that can influence the life of others is not one of the supernatural Spiritual gifts we've been talking about, so I don't see the point.
Can you nowadays go to a committee and request one of your letters to be added to the Bible? Can anyone do that? If yes, what committee?
You seem to have God as an absentee entity in the lives of His people, but scripture teaches us that Jesus is the Good Shepherd, that wouldn’t be true if He wasn’t actively involved in leading us and guiding us now would it?
Well, again, you are assuming something I never said; as you well know, I've only been saying these supernatural gifts have ceased.
Take care
Originally posted by KellyJay[/b]Hi Kelly,
So this doesn't become a book I am going to break it up into smaller
pieces, hope you do not mind. FYI, when everything turns up bold,
just put a [] with a /b in the middle of them at the start of the first
line, typically that will restore it normal text. It happens to me from
time to time so I edit and fix it.
[b]
I've been reading and accepting w ...[text shortened]... and there
is no doubt about what or who we are talking about the text is quite
plain.
Kelly
I understand you keep the same argument up and going, taking the
position that partial knowledge is replaced by complete knowledge
and so on; however, your doing that is my point. It isn’t enough to
suggest what you are saying, the link must be make within scripture
showing me that the ‘completeness’ that was being spoken about was
the last of the text to written, making that scripture written the last of
scripture to be written.
If I'm sure my argument is correct, why shouldn't I use it?
If you look to the evidence that Paul was commending to the Corinthians the lasting gifts, instead of the ones that would cease, if you see that partial knowledge is contrasted with complete knowledge, if you notice too that no other books have been added to the Bible, and if you take care to notice that these gifts were only imparted after the laying of hands of the apostles, you would probably reach the same conclusion.
Yes, in two ocassions these gifts were imparted directly by the Holy Spirit, but these occasions were exceptions. The first one was when they were imparted in the day of Pentecost, the second was when they were imparted to the first converted gentiles, in order to convince the skeptic Peter and some disciples, about the fact that salvation was available not only to the Jews.
Without more than your opinion on that means, what we are left with is this type of argument, my son cannot fly by flapping his arms, so apples are vegetables. One does not have anything to do with other, there must be a linkage within scripture where the ‘complete’ is the last of the scripture to be written, so when I ask you to show me this all I’ve been getting from you is more argument about how what is partial or incomplete isn’t as good as something complete, which I have to say okay, but what does that have to with the subject at hand,
It is much more than my opinion, it is Scripture. Just because you use an argument that has nothing to do with the other, it doesn't mean mine hasn't. The linkage you are looking for is common sense, which one should apply after gathering all evidence. I'm not talking about something that is partial and something that is complete, those are your words; I'm talking about knowledge and prophecy that are partial and knowledge and prophecy that are complete. What it has to do with the subject at hand? Everything. In my case, all the knowledge I have regarding the Truth came from the Bible.
show me why you think within scripture this is the case without reading into it something that isn’t there, where is it written within scripture this is true, if you cannot do that you are in danger of adding to scripture your point of view and causes scriptural test to be ignored as it is written. I can show you scripture that tells us to seek out the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and there is no doubt about what or who we are talking about the text is quite plain.
I've shown you within scripture the evidences regarding this subject.
If you take things out of context, you can have the Bible say things it actually doesn't. You are taking I Corinthians chapters 12, 13 and 14 out of context. So, if you want to seek these gifts go ahead.
Regards
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJay[/b]Hi again,
[b]
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come. (emphasis mine).
I understand "all truth" as being the complete knowledge/prophecy Paul wa
event and time where things do change.
Kelly
P.S.
More to come when I have more time.
You are doing it again, the Holy Spirit is coming to guide us into all
truth, the manifestations of the Spirit if referred to as the gifts of the
Spirit, you cannot be guided unless you following, your linkage of the
words ‘all truth’ to ‘scriptural text’ still has not be made scripturally
only in you expressing your opinion so far.
You are mixing things up. One thing is the the Spirit guiding the disciples into all truth, another are the manifestations of that same Spirit, which were used as an evidence of the truth they were preaching.
As I said in my previous post, all knowledge I have regarding the Truth came from the Bible, not from intuition. The Spirit guided the apostles and early disciples, and they wrote the Scriptures, the Whole Truth.
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
I have an opinion on what that particular piece of scripture in Corinthians is referring too as well, but I do admit I’m guessing. I believe it to speaking of the time when none of the gifts are needed, when the loin lays down with the lamb, when we no longer have to deal with sickness, lies, betrayals, when the sin nature of man is replaced by the new man where are nature is incorruptible, when the universe no longer has to deal with the brokenness of sin in either the spiritual world or the physical one, that in my opinion is when those gifts are no longer required and will go away. I believe there is a stronger case to be made for this time to be the time that was being spoken about than what you keep bringing up, at least this is discussed in scripture as an up coming
event and time where things do change.
With all respect Kelly, I don't see how you can make a stronger case for your opinion than from mine.
Take care.