What is Truth?

Here is a short Youtube video that might help you understand biblical slavery.

YouTube

Originally posted by galveston75
Perhaps this will help:

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102011251?q=slavery&p=par

Perhaps if we only focus on part of the issue, you'll be able to see the TRUTH.

Let's look at Exodus 21:20-21

Exodus 21
20“If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21“If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.

Clearly God permitted slaves to be severely beaten - even to the point of death (so long as the slave doesn't die within "a day or two" ) .

Let's look at the Watchtower Online Library article:

Cruel and abusive slavery was not allowed under God’s Law to Israel. While masters were allowed to discipline their slaves, excesses were forbidden. A slave killed by his master was to be avenged. (Exodus 21:20)

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102011251?q=slavery&p=par

The article you cited states that "cruel and abusive slavery was not allowed" and that "a slave killed by his master was to be avenged".

However the TRUTH is that God permitted slaves to be severely beaten - even to the point of death (so long as the slave doesn't die within "a day or two" ).

The article you cited ignores the verse that immediately follows the verse it cites (Exodus 21:20) so as to deceive.

Can you see the TRUTH now?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Perhaps if we only focus on part of the issue, you'll be able to see the TRUTH.

Let's look at Exodus 21:20-21

[quote]Exodus 21
20“If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21“If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.

Clearly God permitte ...[text shortened]... iately follows the verse it cites (Exodus 21:20) so as to deceive.

Can you see the TRUTH now?

It does not say that a man can severely beat a slave. It says if he should strike the slave. That looks like one blow to me. He may have struck him accidentally. It just does not say. You are adding to scripture and trying to impose your own ideas on the situation.

Originally posted by RJHinds
It does not say that a man can severely beat a slave. It says if he should strike the slave. That looks like one blow to me. He may have struck him accidentally. It just does not say. You are adding to scripture and trying to impose your own ideas on the situation.

Let me see if I understand you: In your mind a man who was struck sufficiently hard with a rod so as to cause death was not severely beaten?

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

And if a man smite his servant or his maid with a rod,.... A Canaanitish servant or maid, as the Targum of Jonathan, and so Jarchi; and that only with a rod for the correction of them, and not with a sword or any such destroying weapon, which would seem as though he intended to kill, yet nevertheless:

and he die under his hand; immediately, while he is smiting or beating him or her, on the same day, as the above Targum interprets it:

he shall be surely punished; or condemned to the punishment of being slain with the sword, as the said Targum and Jarchi explain it: this law was made to deter masters from using severity and cruelty towards their servants.

http://biblehub.com/exodus/21-20.htm

Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two,.... And does not die immediately, or the same day, but lives twenty four hours, as the Jewish writers interpret it; so Abendana (x) explains the phrase, "a day or two";"a day which is as two days, and they are twenty four hours from time to time,''that is, from the time he was smitten to the time of his continuance; and so it is elsewhere explained (y) by a day we understand a day, which is like two days, that is, from time to time, the meaning of which is, from a certain time in one day to the same in another:

he shall not be punished; that is, with death:

for he is his money; is bought with his money, and is good as money, and therefore it is a loss sufficient to him to lose him; and it may be reasonably thought he did not smite his servant with an intention to kill him, since he himself is the loser by it.

(x) Not. in Miclol Yophi in loc. (y) Maimon. & Bartenora in Misn. Zabim, c. 2. sect. 3

http://biblehub.com/exodus/21-21.htm.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Perhaps if we only focus on part of the issue, you'll be able to see the TRUTH.

Let's look at Exodus 21:20-21

[quote]Exodus 21
20“If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21“If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.

Clearly God permitte ...[text shortened]... iately follows the verse it cites (Exodus 21:20) so as to deceive.

Can you see the TRUTH now?

Exodus 21:20
20 “If a man strikes his slave man or his slave girl with a stick and that one dies by his hand, that one must be avenged.

Don't see your point with this scripture as it clearly says the death of a slave would be revenged, not accepted.

Originally posted by galveston75
Exodus 21:20
20 “If a man strikes his slave man or his slave girl with a stick and that one dies by his hand, that one must be avenged.

Don't see your point with this scripture as it clearly says the death of a slave would be revenged, not accepted.

Seriously? I point out that the article you cited deceitfully ignores Exodus 21:21 and you respond by also deceitfully ignoring Exodus 21:21?

Exodus 21
20“If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21“If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.


Like I said:

The article you cited states that "cruel and abusive slavery was not allowed" and that "a slave killed by his master was to be avenged".

However the TRUTH is that God permitted slaves to be severely beaten - even to the point of death (so long as the slave doesn't die within "a day or two" ).

The article you cited ignores the verse that immediately follows the verse it cites (Exodus 21:20) so as to deceive.

Can you see the TRUTH now?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Seriously? I point out that the article you cited deceitfully ignores Exodus 21:21 and you respond by also deceitfully ignoring Exodus 21:21?

Exodus 21
20“If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. [b]21“If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property ...[text shortened]... the verse it cites (Exodus 21:20) so as to deceive.

Can you see the TRUTH now? [/quote][/b]

No it was not allowed ever. Why can't you see that?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Seriously? I point out that the article you cited deceitfully ignores Exodus 21:21 and you respond by also deceitfully ignoring Exodus 21:21?

Exodus 21
20“If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. [b]21“If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property ...[text shortened]... the verse it cites (Exodus 21:20) so as to deceive.

Can you see the TRUTH now? [/quote][/b]

Exodus 21:20 says "IF an man strikes his male or female slave ..."

This is not a divine directive to GO and DO SO. (Ie. What to do in the case of divorce is not God's instruction to go do divorces ).

It is a instruction as what to do "IF" such an abuse should take place.

And the gist of it is is that it was treated as a capital murder. If an employer's discipline resulted in the immediate death of his servant, that employer (master) himself was to be put to death.

The word for "punished" in Exodus 21:20 is very strong and always connoting the death penalty.

By contrast, Hammurabi's Code permitted the master to cut off the ear of a disobedient slave. The typical case in the ancient Near Eastern law codes was that masters, rather than slaves, were merely financially compensated for injuries to slaves. In contrast the Law of Moses held masters accountable for treatment of their own servants, and not simply another person's servant.

This servant / master relationship was a fact of life in ancient times. And God through Moses instructs what should be done IF a situation occurs.

And the instruction should also be taken into account with Divine Anti-Kidnapping laws -

"He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possessions, shall surely be put to death." (Exodus 21:16)

"If a man is caught kidnapping any of his countrymen of the sons of Israel, and he deals wsith him violently or sells him, then that thief shall die; so you shall purge the evil from among you. (Deut. 24:7)

The New Testament identifies kidnapping also as sinful and ungodly ( 1 Tim. 1:10)

Beware of hasty comparisons to servanthood in Israel with the slavery system in the antebellum South of the US, and also with other social codes in the ancient Near East.

Originally posted by galveston75
No it was not allowed ever. Why can't you see that?

Exodus 21
20“If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21“If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.

Read Exodus 21:20-21 in its entirety. Exodus 21:21 is stating an exception to Exodus 21:20. Do you not understand the meaning of the words "If, however"?

Exodus 21
20“If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21“If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.

The provision is there to help the courts to determine deliberate murder from an bad thrashing which was not premeditated murder.

The oldest known human writing advocating justice for a slave is found in the Bible in the Bible's oldest book - Job.

"If I have denied justice to my menservants and maidservants when they had a grievance against me, what will I do when God confronts me? What will I answer when called to account? Did not he who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same one form us both within our mothers?" (NIV See Job 31:13-15)

The slave, like the master was made by God in the image and likeness of God.

This was a far cry from slavery in the US where my ancestors were taught they had no souls, could not pray, and were only little higher than animals, made to be beasts of burden.

If there is a more ancient writing than the book of Job expressing the fear of a man before justice as to how he treats his servants, I would like someone to produce it.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Seriously? I point out that the article you cited deceitfully ignores Exodus 21:21 and you respond by also deceitfully ignoring Exodus 21:21?

Exodus 21
20“If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. [b]21“If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property ...[text shortened]... the verse it cites (Exodus 21:20) so as to deceive.

Can you see the TRUTH now? [/quote][/b]

Please stop calling me a lier or being deceitful as I am neither. Just because I don't agree with you and your ideas means nothing of the sort. Good day.....

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Exodus 21
20“If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. [b]21“If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.

Read Exodus 21:20-21 in its entirety. Exodus 21:21 is stating an exception to Exodus 21:20. Do you not understand the meaning of the words "If, however"?[/b]

"IF" does not mean one has the green light to be cruel does it? No it doesn't. You are still missing the point that "IF" someone did kill a slave their life could be taken justifiably by one of their relatives......
And no where is there a green light to be cruel either unless your bible is some weird version....

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Let me see if I understand you: In your mind a man who was struck sufficiently hard with a rod so as to cause death was not severely beaten?

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

And [b]if a man smite his servant or his maid with a rod,.... A Canaanitish servant or maid, as the Targum of Jonathan, and so Jarchi; and that only with a rod for t ...[text shortened]... on. & Bartenora in Misn. Zabim, c. 2. sect. 3

http://biblehub.com/exodus/21-21.htm.

Proverbs 13:24
New King James Version (NKJV)

He who spares his rod hates his son,
But he who loves him disciplines him promptly.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Proverbs 13:24
New King James Version (NKJV)

[b]He who spares his rod hates his son,
But he who loves him disciplines him promptly.[/b]

The verse is significant because many of the servants were youngsters sold to service of wealthier families. The hope was that they would be in a more prosperous environment to be clothed and sheltered better that what a poverty stricken family could do. Dept servitude was a fact of life. The paying off of depts through slavery was customary in many ANE cultures.

The down side was that the masters could became secondary parents of a poorer type. And sometimes master / secondary parents might over punish a under age servant.

Either way God's law given to Moses made provision for servants being inhumanly damaged.

Originally posted by sonship
Exodus 21:20 says [b] "IF an man strikes his male or female slave ..."

This is not a divine directive to GO and DO SO. (Ie. What to do in the case of divorce is not God's instruction to go do divorces ).

It is a instruction as what to do "IF" such an abuse should take place.

And the gist of it is is that it was treated as a capit ...[text shortened]... em in the antebellum South of the US, and also with other social codes in the ancient Near East.

Exodus 21:20 says "IF an man strikes his male or female slave ..."

This is not a divine directive to GO and DO SO. (Ie. What to do in the case of divorce is not God's instruction to go do divorces ).

It is a instruction as what to do "IF" such an abuse should take place.

And the gist of it is is that it was treated as a capital murder. If an employer's discipline resulted in the immediate death of his servant, that employer (master) himself was to be put to death.

The word for "punished" in Exodus 21:20 is very strong and always connoting the death penalty.

Why are you also ignoring the exception given in Exodus 21:21? I understand that it "is not a divine directive to GO and DO SO". However it was permitted under the circumstances described in Exodus 21:20-21 just as divorce was permitted.