30 Aug 15
Originally posted by chaney3The Bible claims that God showed himself to various people; so obviously, humans can handle such an encounter.
Agreed FMF. But.....that leads to the next question. Could our human minds really handle such an encounter? It seems to me, that having the 'doubt' about God is what allows us to actually live our lives. If we had CERTAIN proof of God.....wouldn't that change our lives dramatically? Would we be all of a sudden running to the priesthood schools if God suddenly made Himself known?
Still, I doubt it would take that much. Elijah proved God was real by praying to God for a specific miracle, and it happened immediately after Elijah was done. Simply get cameras, some trusted scientists, and have God repeatedly do something only a god can do. It's honestly not hard.
Pray for god to completely empty out the oceans; let science fly around in the empty space for a days or weeks, and then have god immediately fill them right after asking.
With an infinite, all-powerful being, there are countless ways God can prove himself.
Originally posted by vivifyIndeed. Which to me means one of 2 things:
With an infinite, all-powerful being, there are countless ways God can prove himself.
1. God doesn't exist.
2. God (for his own reasons) has chosen not to reveal himself to most of us. (Freewill etc).
Problem is, if the second option applies, how can i reasonably be expected to believe in him? Without confirmation from the source, all i am left with is hearsay.
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30 Aug 15
Originally posted by vivifyThis is a popular question, but I don't think God operates that way.
The Bible claims that God showed himself to various people; so obviously, humans can handle such an encounter.
Still, I doubt it would take that much. Elijah proved God was real by praying to God for a specific miracle, and it happened immediately after Elijah was done. Simply get cameras, some trusted scientists, and have God repeatedly do something o ...[text shortened]... king.
With an infinite, all-powerful being, there are countless ways God can prove himself.
It's very tempting to say, "If I saw God personally, I would believe." In Jesus' day, there were many people who saw His miracles first hand but still did not follow Him. If Jesus appeared today and performed miracles, many would assume He was a skilled illusionist or a con-man operating a scam.
The point is simply that people will either believe or they will not. If someone is closed to the idea, no amount of evidence will ever convince them.
Just think here a minute of the people who saw God part the Red Sea. A few days later, they complained and would not trust God.
There are many today who feel, as the late Scottish philosopher David Hume did, that miracles are simply impossible. Therefore, any time you see one, there must be some other natural explanation.
If Jesus Christ came and stood before you right now and performed a miracle, would you believe? Perhaps you would, or perhaps it would not take long before you started to think that it was dream, a hallucination, or that someone played a trick on you.
For some, it's very comforting to know that we have a loving Father in Heaven, so it's natural for us to reach out to Him. For others, it's frightening to admit that there is a God because that comes with an expectation of how He wants them to behave - and they don't want to change!
As long as people close their hearts and minds to the idea of God, nothing will ever convince them and no amount of evidence will ever suffice. For those who want to believe in God, there is more than enough evidence out there and they will find Him.
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30 Aug 15
If this does not make the point clearly enough, perhaps one might consider spending an entertaining 97 minutes with Eddie Murphy. In the 1988 film Coming to America, we are told the story of a king of splendid wealth and power from a faraway African land, who seeks only one thing – true love. Yet he chooses not to present himself to the world as a very eligible bachelor, fearing someone might love him not for his title, or what he owns, but for what he is. Instead, he comes to inner-city America and rents a rat-infested apartment and works in a fast-food restaurant. Eventually, he finds true love and only at the end does he reveal his true identity to his beloved. The movie is by no means explicitly (or even intentionally) Christian, but the basic story does remind me a bit of a certain 1st century Jewish carpenter. And the desire to be loved for who one is – which could be contrasted to wealth, beauty, youth, intellect, title, power, or anything else – is something we can all relate to. Perhaps it’s because we are made in His image, made to love Him and one another and to find our highest fulfillment in that. And perhaps making that happen in a genuine way between the Creator of the universe and creatures such as ourselves requires some complicated dynamics, that may look a bit like hide and seek.
http://christianityqanda.net/2011/10/28/why-doesnt-god-just-reveal-himself-to-everyone/
30 Aug 15
Originally posted by checkbaiterHang on, didn't Eddie Murphy beat some guy up with a mop in that movie?
If this does not make the point clearly enough, perhaps one might consider spending an entertaining 97 minutes with Eddie Murphy. In the 1988 film Coming to America, we are told the story of a king of splendid wealth and power from a faraway African land, who seeks only one thing – true love. Yet he chooses not to present himself to the world as a very ...[text shortened]... d seek.
http://christianityqanda.net/2011/10/28/why-doesnt-god-just-reveal-himself-to-everyone/
Originally posted by FMFAnd then, around 2,500 years later, someone will ask a similar question and the answer will be:
I gather from most atheists I know, that they would require a god to reveal itself to them directly and unambiguously and not through a hodge podge of books laying out the mythology and superstitions of one particular tribe of people who inhabited the Middle East thousands of years ago.
we require a God to reveal Himself to us directly and unambiguously and not through a hodge podge of electronic forms of media laying out the mythology and superstitions of one particular tribe of people who inhabited the ancient world thousands of years ago.
Originally posted by googlefudgeWouldn't that also mean that God would know what it takes for you to know, and even if
I like Matt Dillahunty's answer.
"I don't know what evidence would convince me that a god exists, but if a god does exist,
THEY would know what evidence would convince me"
The problem with trying to prove an omnipotent being is that it's pretty near impossible to
demonstrate 'infinite' power to a non-omnipotent being.
However it should be po ...[text shortened]... monstrated yourself
close enough that for any practical purpose we cannot tell the difference.
God shows you, it does not mean you have to accept it? After all, it isn't just that God
shows you, it is that you must acknowledge it. Not much different than seeing you lost
an argument, you can know it, but it doesn't mean you have to agree to it.
Originally posted by checkbaiterThe problem with this kind of logic, is that the exact same thing can be said from Muslims or believers in Zeus. If you saw a 'miracle' performed in the name of Allah, would you (Checkbaiter) believe? Or would you think that Muslim is pulling some kind of scam?
This is a popular question, but I don't think God operates that way.
It's very tempting to say, "If I saw God personally, I would believe." In Jesus' day, there were many people who saw His miracles first hand but still did not follow Him. If Jesus appeared today and performed miracles, many would assume He was a skilled illusionist or a con-man operating a scam.
An all-powerful, all-knowing god should have no trouble devising a way to prove he exists beyond all doubt.
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30 Aug 15
Originally posted by vivifyI see your point and it is a good one.
The problem with this kind of logic, is that the exact same thing can be said from Muslims or believers in Zeus. If you saw a 'miracle' performed in the name of Allah, would you (Checkbaiter) believe? Or would you think that Muslim is pulling some kind of scam?
An all-powerful, all-knowing god should have no trouble devising a way to prove he exists beyond all doubt.
All I can say is I have never heard of a miracle by any other god.
I have seen with mine own eyes many things that would not be considered natural. I have received healing and other things from God, but again, I could not "prove" it to some one else, except my wife, since she is an eye witness.
I have heard personal deliverance from friends that I believe would not lie about these kinds of matters.
Family members and friends have told me things, like from an audible voice, to many who were allowed to see demonic activity, and other things which I do not care to engage in here for fear it would cast me as a lunatic, and God would not be glorified.
I do not want to use any of that as a proof, I cannot prove anything. God works in different ways with different people. That is one reason Christians like to gather together and fellowship. They listen to how God is working in different people's lives and God is glorified by this.
Once a person has tasted this kind of life, there is no going back.
How can I say it differently?
Once I had an encounter with Jesus, nothing in this world could cause me to reject what I have learned, and I certainly will in no way reject him either.
30 Aug 15
Originally posted by vivifyActually I believe your correct, He could prove it, but it does not mean that everyone who
The problem with this kind of logic, is that the exact same thing can be said from Muslims or believers in Zeus. If you saw a 'miracle' performed in the name of Allah, would you (Checkbaiter) believe? Or would you think that Muslim is pulling some kind of scam?
An all-powerful, all-knowing god should have no trouble devising a way to prove he exists beyond all doubt.
has had it proved to them will accept it and acknowledge it. Those are not the same things,
so it would be clear who knew what when only during a time where God reveals all truth
to all of us so plainly that no one will have an excuse.
30 Aug 15
Originally posted by KellyJaySo you believe your god is so helpless that it could not convince people of its godliness if it wanted to?
Actually I believe your correct, He could prove it, but it does not mean that everyone who
has had it proved to them will accept it and acknowledge it. Those are not the same things,
so it would be clear who knew what when only during a time where God reveals all truth
to all of us so plainly that no one will have an excuse.
30 Aug 15
Originally posted by FreakyKBHThat you personally just so happen to find the mythology and superstitions of the ancient Hebrews to be sufficient proof of God is understood. 😉
And then, around 2,500 years later, someone will ask a similar question and the answer will be:
we require a God to reveal Himself to us directly and unambiguously and not through a hodge podge of electronic forms of media laying out the mythology and superstitions of one particular tribe of people who inhabited the ancient world thousands of years ago.