Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeFaith is built on evidence, it is built upon trust or the hope of it. You may enter into an
So what is faith built on, if not evidence?
As an atheist, the nearest i can get to faith is 'trust' and even then that trust is based on something solid. - For example i trust my friend Bob not to steal my gold lighter when i go into the kitchen to deshell a lobster. I trust him however because he has 'proven' to me in the past that he is a good ...[text shortened]... ld lighter. - Heck, i've not had lobster since 1987 and that unfortunate incident in Barnstable.
agreement with someone whose actions you going to believe will be what they said so
you in turn will act on good faith to do your part. It is easier the closer you are to that
person, and I suppose the more disappointed you could be too. The faith is a matter of
trust that may or may not fall out as we want.
Proof isn't something we are doing to see with God, evidence I believe the full universe
is proof as I have pointed out before. The things that God has done in my life has me
trusting Him more than I did over 30 years ago. Through good and the bad He has been
faithful to me, much more than I have been to Him.
It seems to me that many who refuse to believe have practically stated they would always
find some way to explain away anything that would lead them to accept God is real in their
lives. Difficult to believe when one refuses to see anything that could possibly show you
that God is real.
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The post that was quoted here has been removedAccusations of sexism and/or islamophobia are quite besides the point, and as a big fan of Russel (a logical thinker of rank) I'm confident you'll agree (your rant notwithstanding).
Let me reiterate that I am in no way comparing Harris and Russel in their philosophical insights. I'm merely pointing out that Harris has a very deep interest in, and I would think appreciation for, spiritual experiences and the impact they can have in our lives. You suggested that "new" atheists aren't very spiritual, so I thought I'd point that out, since Harris is considered a leader of "new" atheism.
I'd also like to point out that I give little credence to this idea of "new" atheism. It seems to me a wave of the same atheism as always, with the only difference being about the amount of public limelight it's been getting over the past ten to fifteen years. Maybe the reason for that is precisely because these writers are very plain and to the point, which seems to appeal to most non-academics.
Originally posted by KellyJayYes, they would seem to be the main 2 forms of 'evidence' a Christian would put forward:
Proof isn't something we are doing to see with God, evidence I believe the full universe
is proof as I have pointed out before. The things that God has done in my life has me
trusting Him more than I did over 30 years ago.
1. The teleological argument (intelligent design of the universe)
2. Personal experience of God that confirms his existence.
I personally (unsurprisingly) have problems with both of these as 'evidence' in any meaningful sense. The universe is indeed mindbogglingly amazing, but this doesn't prove it was created by a divine being. (Sure, it's one possibility, but not a conclusive one that can be equated with evidence). - And as i have not had a personal experience of God myself, it is difficult to conceive the experiences of others as 'evidence.' On what grounds are these personal experiences attributed to God? etc etc.
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeI agree with you neither one of those is conclusive! I again say I cannot prove God, only
Yes, they would seem to be the main 2 forms of 'evidence' a Christian would put forward:
1. The teleological argument (intelligent design of the universe)
2. Personal experience of God that confirms his existence.
I personally (unsurprisingly) have problems with both of these as 'evidence' in any meaningful sense. The universe is indeed mindbo ...[text shortened]... others as 'evidence.' On what grounds are these personal experiences attributed to God? etc etc.
God can do that. We walk by faith, all of us do, we just put our faith in different things.
The distant past is out of our reach yet people believe they know what occurred millions
and billions of years ago. There are so many things we just trust to be true!
I will say this, you'll never find God if you think you can demand that He reveals Himself
to you. It will always be by faith, and it will always be on God's terms not ours.
Originally posted by KellyJayIt is not so much that i 'demand' God prove himself to me, but more a case of there being insufficient evidence to make belief in him possible,
I agree with you neither one of those is conclusive! I again say I cannot prove God, only
God can do that. We walk by faith, all of us do, we just put our faith in different things.
The distant past is out of our reach yet people believe they know what occurred millions
and billions of years ago. There are so many things we just trust to be true!
I ...[text shortened]... eals Himself
to you. It will always be by faith, and it will always be on God's terms not ours.
Faith in something unproven is just not in my nature.
02 Sep 15
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeWell I think we partly agree, but faith is in your nature if you trust anything that cannot be
It is not so much that i 'demand' God prove himself to me, but more a case of there being insufficient evidence to make belief in him possible,
Faith in something unproven is just not in my nature.
shown true, but must be accepted.
03 Sep 15
Originally posted by KellyJayWe don't really have to prove God, because God has already proven Himself. All we are to do is to tell the unbelievers to get there heads out of that black hole and look around. 😏
I agree with you neither one of those is conclusive! I again say I cannot prove God, only
God can do that. We walk by faith, all of us do, we just put our faith in different things.
The distant past is out of our reach yet people believe they know what occurred millions
and billions of years ago. There are so many things we just trust to be true!
I ...[text shortened]... eals Himself
to you. It will always be by faith, and it will always be on God's terms not ours.
Originally posted by RJHindsI believe I said that I cannot prove God, only God can do that.
We don't really have to prove God, because God has already proven Himself. All we are to do is to tell the unbelievers to get there heads out of that black hole and look around. 😏
I believe no one will have an excuse before God too when the time comes.
03 Sep 15
Originally posted by chaney3What exactly is it you expect a God to do? Why? And what is your source for the claim implicitly contained in your lament for that boy?
Today, I saw a picture on the internet of a little boy, washed up on the beach, dead. Apparently a victim of the migrant crisis.
No proof of any god there.