What's wrong with evolution?

Originally posted by Nosrac
So, Scott, what do you believe happened in the past?
Monkies roamed the earth?
The earth was formed some trillion years ago?
Read Genesis.
Why?
Because it's the TRUTH.
Yes, I'm open minded.
Yes, I know y'all are evolutionists.
And if y'ar evolutionists that believe in science and other theories
since Darwin is just a theory.
Then why is it so hard f ...[text shortened]... e in God?
This I really would like to know.
No, not with your penchant for sarcasm either.

Also science is not a theory, it is a discipline.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Really? Why is that, because you don't believe in God? Personally,
I think God is the simplest explanation, your failure to accept that
doesn't change anything as far as reality is concern, it simply puts
limits your view of certain variables being in play or not.
Kelly

NO!!!!! All the data can be explained by the natural, without need to appeal to the supernatural - that is what I mean by "simpler". We can show that all the processes that we require for evolution by natural selection occur - without the need for God. Therefore, if we choose the most parsimonious argument, God is out of the picture.

Originally posted by Nosrac
So, Scott, what do you believe happened in the past?
Monkies roamed the earth?
The earth was formed some trillion years ago?
Read Genesis.
Why?
Because it's the TRUTH.
Yes, I'm open minded.
Yes, I know y'all are evolutionists.
And if y'ar evolutionists that believe in science and other theories
since Darwin is just a theory.
Then why is it so hard f ...[text shortened]... e in God?
This I really would like to know.
No, not with your penchant for sarcasm either.

I think the scientific explanations have been sufficiently well covered here by google and XanthosNZ. Although I have also written many a page in these here forums about the current scientific understanding.

Why do we think these things are right and a young earth, genesis type earth creation wrong? It's not because we are crazy, but simply comes down to available evidence. All available evidence gives us an earth with a mean age of around 5 thousand million years old. All available evidence shows a steady progession throughout the fossil record of steadily increasing complexity. The chemical evidence of rocks, and atmospheric chemistry also corroborate these finding. We have analyses of the moon, and of meteorites, which come out with ages of thousands of millions of years. When a single religious text tries to give an explanation which contradicts the massive body of evidence to the contrary, I say get rid of the religious text.

Originally posted by Nosrac
So, Scott, what do you believe happened in the past?
Monkies roamed the earth?
The earth was formed some trillion years ago?
Read Genesis.
Why?
Because it's the TRUTH.
Yes, I'm open minded.
Yes, I know y'all are evolutionists.
And if y'ar evolutionists that believe in science and other theories
since Darwin is just a theory.
Then why is it so hard f ...[text shortened]... e in God?
This I really would like to know.
No, not with your penchant for sarcasm either.

In an adult debate, you need reliable sources. Much of the bible is second hand information, and should only be used when backed up by more reliable sources.
If genesis is the truth, then why is it contradicted repeatedly by scientific study, which is beyond reasonable doubt?
Or is it the truth because lots of people say so.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
NO!!!!! All the data can be explained by the natural, without need to appeal to the supernatural - that is what I mean by "simpler". We can show that all the processes that we require for evolution by natural selection occur - without the need for God. Therefore, if we choose the most parsimonious argument, God is out of the picture.

The data can not be completely explained by the natural! You have
no idea where all matter and energy comes from, you have no idea
about a lot of things, but you and others make up explanations as
you go along then dismiss what you do not know as something not
to be worried about. As long as you put blinders up for that which
you don't know you can make the claim, that it can all be explained
away with just the natural universe we see and touch, but all you
really have is just another story nothing else, bottom line.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
The data can not be completely explained by the natural! You have no idea where all matter and energy comes from, you have no idea about a lot of things, but you and others make up explanations as
you go along then dismiss what you do not know as something not
to be worried about. As long as you put blinders up for that which
you don't know you can make ...[text shortened]... see and touch, but all you
really have is just another story nothing else, bottom line.
Kelly

As opposed to your crew who makes up the explanation then shoehorn the data to fit.

[EDIT; Kelly, I just want to point out that the old creationist argument of "well, where did everything come from then?!" is immensely weak. Of course, we know it was Muffy! Or possibly just something we haven't worked out yet - it in no way implies that God does exist, only that God might exist.]

Originally posted by scottishinnz
As opposed to your crew who makes up the explanation then shoehorn the data to fit.

[EDIT; Kelly, I just want to point out that the old creationist argument of "well, where did everything come from then?!" is immensely weak. Of course, we know it was Muffy! Or possibly just something we haven't worked out yet - it in no way implies that God does exist, only that God might exist.]

There is no, "as opposed to" here it is just siimply are we making
it up as we go or buying into something else. You can explain
anything any way you want, the reality of it all will remain what it
is no matter what we believe. As far as the supernatural and God
is concern they are as valid as possible explanation too, when faced
with the completely unknownable as any other thoughts on those
matters.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
There is no, "as opposed to" here it is just siimply are we making
it up as we go or buying into something else. You can explain
anything any way you want, the reality of it all will remain what it
is no matter what we believe. As far as the supernatural and God
is concern they are as valid as possible explanation too, when faced
with the completely unknownable as any other thoughts on those
matters.
Kelly

They are plausible explanations, but should be rejected on the basis of (a) insufficient existential evidence, and (b) insufficient evidence that they are the cause of any given phenomena. Also, of course, (c) more parsimonious natural explanations for phenomena such as the diversity of life on earth.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
They are plausible explanations, but should be rejected on the basis of (a) insufficient existential evidence, and (b) insufficient evidence that they are the cause of any given phenomena. Also, of course, (c) more parsimonious natural explanations for phenomena such as the diversity of life on earth.

Again, plausible only because you have a foundation of what is and
is not real in mind. You leave God out not because you know for a
fact there isn't a God, you just reject the idea. If you have an
explaination for what caused all things from matter to energy, it is
but a best guess/theory/whatever you want to call it. You want a
natural explanation for reality, but do you know there is one, or even
should be one? We could use that same reasoning and apply it to
sound, if you heard a noise would the source of the noise necessarily
be found in some part of the sound itself?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Again, plausible only because you have a foundation of what is and
is not real in mind. You leave God out not because you know for a
fact there isn't a God, you just reject the idea. If you have an
explaination for what caused all things from matter to energy, it is
but a best guess/theory/whatever you want to call it. You want a
natural explanation fo ...[text shortened]... se would the source of the noise necessarily
be found in some part of the sound itself?
Kelly

Do you believe in Ghosts?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Again, plausible only because you have a foundation of what is and
is not real in mind. You leave God out not because you know for a
fact there isn't a God, you just reject the idea. If you have an
explaination for what caused all things from matter to energy, it is
but a best guess/theory/whatever you want to call it. You want a
natural explanation fo ...[text shortened]... se would the source of the noise necessarily
be found in some part of the sound itself?
Kelly

Okay, let's consider supernatural solutions. I would say that it's due to magical elves. You say it's due to God. Well...guess we are at impasse. But that was fun. And at least we tried, right?

By the way, why don't you aim some of that skepticism at your own supernaturalism too? Why not call the whole thing off?

Originally posted by XanthosNZ
Do you believe in Ghosts?

If you mean, do I believe in the spirits of people coming back and
haunting this world, no I do not. I do believe in the Holy Ghost
who is the Holy Spirit of God.
Kelly

Originally posted by LemonJello
Okay, let's consider supernatural solutions. I would say that it's due to magical elves. You say it's due to God. Well...guess we are at impasse. But that was fun. And at least we tried, right?

By the way, why don't you aim some of that skepticism at your own beliefs? They're an easier target.

I'm saying rejecting the so called supernatual, because it does not
meet the natural fame work of your belief system is just a statement
of faith as any other.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'm saying rejecting the so called supernatual, because it does not
meet the natural fame work of your belief system is just a statement
of faith as any other.
Kelly

Strawman. Read Scott's reasons for "rejection" again. It's something closer to contingent naturalism, not a priori rejection of the supernatural.

Originally posted by KellyJay
If you mean, do I believe in the spirits of people coming back and
haunting this world, no I do not. I do believe in the Holy Ghost
who is the Holy Spirit of God.
Kelly

But Ghosts are just as plausible as God are they not? The only reason you don't believe in them is because you have preconcieved ideas.