- Joined
- 01 Oct 04
- Moves
- 12095
Originally posted by googlefudgeI have faith. Which is 'evidence' according to Hebrews 11. I also have heard people talk that have been raised from the dead.
ah so you in fact have no evidence for heaven
But I guess you would not accept that as evidence. For you will not believe even if someone were to be raised from the dead.
- Joined
- 01 Oct 04
- Moves
- 12095
Originally posted by mrstabbyI guess we don't all take the Bible literally always. Ever thought why Jesus spoke in parables?
Jesus' guide to get to heaven according to the gospel...
Love God and your neighbour
Sell everything
Honour your parents [b]and
Hate your family and yourself...
Eat the flesh and drink the blood of christ
Become like little children
Be born again (spiritually)
Follow the 613 old testament laws
Believe in Jesus
You can check these up in the b ...[text shortened]... onder Jesus said getting to heaven is as likely as passing a camel through the eye of a needle.[/b]
Originally posted by dj2beckerSo if I have faith in the mystical elves of the woods who grant my every wish then that's evidence that they exist.
I have faith. Which is 'evidence' according to Hebrews 11. I also have heard people talk that have been raised from the dead.
But I guess you would not accept that as evidence. For you will not believe even if someone were to be raised from the dead.
Luke 18:22
When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
Sounds pretty literal to me
As does the Luke 14 bit about hating yourself and others while loving thy neighour
- Joined
- 31 May 06
- Moves
- 1795
Originally posted by dj2beckerFaith is not evidence of anything other than the fact you have faith, (even the testing of the veracity of this simple statement could prove troublesome.). You say you have heard people talk who have been raised from the dead, so I would ask; do you have any film of this? How did you know they were dead? Who raised them? How was it done? How do you know it wasn't someone coning you? All I have is your word that you have heard the voice of someone who had previously been dead, As I have no basis to know weather or not you are telling the truth, or weather you your self have been conned (or if in fact the person in question had simply nearly died, and then been brought round), I can't give any real weight to your assertions. Now if you could find a corps and 'reawaken' it then we might take what you are saying more seriously. What you don't seem to understand is that 'evidence' is in this context something you can show other people (us, as we are the ones who you are trying to convince), if you can't do better than 'well I saw it' then few people are going to believe you.
I have faith. Which is 'evidence' according to Hebrews 11. I also have heard people talk that have been raised from the dead.
But I guess you would not accept that as evidence. For you will not believe even if someone were to be raised from the dead.
- Joined
- 01 Oct 04
- Moves
- 12095
Originally posted by mrstabbyI hope you are not trying to protect the literal interpretation of the Bible. I am afraid you will fail miserably.
Luke 18:22
When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
Sounds pretty literal to me
As does the Luke 14 bit about hating yourself and others while loving thy neighour
- Joined
- 01 Oct 04
- Moves
- 12095
Originally posted by googlefudgeOK. Let me put it this way, I believe the what the Bible says about Heaven. I have plenty of Reasons for this. I just don't have the time to go into all of that right now.
Faith is not evidence of anything other than the fact you have faith, (even the testing of the veracity of this simple statement could prove troublesome.). You say you have heard people talk who have been raised from the dead, so I would ask; do you have any film of this? How did you know they were dead? Who raised them? How was it done? How do you know ...[text shortened]... if you can't do better than 'well I saw it' then few people are going to believe you.
You might find this interesting:http://www.insightsofgod.com/
Originally posted by dj2beckerShow me why not (when you have the time). When are you to take the bible literally and when are you not. Are you supposed to ignore a large chunk of Leviticus because it's about animal sacrifice, and if so, why that bit?
I hope you are not trying to protect the literal interpretation of the Bible. I am afraid you will fail miserably.
What about Exodus 21:20
If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.
How would you interpret that passage?
or Colossians 3:22
Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but in singleness of heart, fearing the Lord. Whatever your task, work heartily...
God seems to be cool with slavery
Isiah 40:8
The grass withers, the flower fades; but the word of our God will stand for ever.
So he's still cool with it
How do you know which bits to take or leave, or not take literally?
Also you seem to say you have reasons to believe what you do, but that's about as good as "because I say so" in an arguement.
Originally posted by XanthosNZThat is what you got out of my statement? I was talking about what
So then you agree that believing in anything that has no evidence for or against it is just as valid as believing in God? Just checking.
But we're getting off track, this thread is about Evolution which does indeed have evidence supporting it and no amount of screaming "Did you watch it happen?" will change that.
could not be proven, not that there wasn't evidence. Anyone can make
any claim on what is evidence, it doesn't mean their evidence is valid,
it does not mean that the evidence is real, it doesn't mean anything
outside of they make a claim of evidence. Evidence may be valid,
it may go strait to the subject too, and still be rejected because
of assumptions that are bad too. If you want to twist my words to
make your point, that is up to you. Claims about evidence are just
as important as the fact they are attempting to prove, having what
one calls evidence only means they have claims nothing more.
Kelly
- Joined
- 01 Oct 04
- Moves
- 12095
Originally posted by mrstabbyI believe that the Bible should be read in it's entirety and understood in that way. We have to read the verses in context. The Bible should be read prayerfully so that it's author, the Holy Spirit, can reveal its mysteries and deeper meanings to us.
Show me why not (when you have the time). When are you to take the bible literally and when are you not. Are you supposed to ignore a large chunk of Leviticus because it's about animal sacrifice, and if so, why that bit?
What about Exodus 21:20
If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, ...[text shortened]... ons to believe what you do, but that's about as good as "because I say so" in an arguement.
With regards to the laws in Leviticus about animal sacrifice, they were all foreshadowing the ultimate sacrifice, which is Jesus Christ. That is why we do not need to make sacrifices for our sins anymore because Jesus already payed the price for our sins.
With regards to the passage you quoted from Luke 14, this is what Matthew Henry, one of the leading commentators of the Bible, has to say.
"Every man loves his relations; and yet, if he be a disciple of Christ, he must comparatively hate them. Not that their persons must be in any degree hated, but our comfort and satisfaction in them must be lost and swallowed up in our love for Christ. When our duty to our parents comes into competition with our duty to Christ, we must give Christ the preference."
Originally posted by dj2beckerAs far as I know Matthew Henry didn't write any of the bible. How can you trust him? The bible is supposed to be God's untained words, who is he to say where and how to interpret them?
I believe that the Bible should be read in it's entirety and understood in that way. We have to read the verses in context. The Bible should be read prayerfully so that it's author, the Holy Spirit, can reveal its mysteries and deeper meanings to us.
With regards to the laws in Leviticus about animal sacrifice, they were all foreshadowing the ultimate ...[text shortened]... parents comes into competition with our duty to Christ, we must give Christ the preference."
Matthew 5:17-20
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
I think that states that the laws should be upheld.
What about slavery in the bible, it's pretty much accepted in both testaments.