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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard member dj2becker
    rentrer à la maison
    01 Jul '18 05:08 / 1 edit
    If you don't believe the entire Bible is divinely inspired and is completely trustworthy in totality, why do you believe any of it at all? It makes absolutely no sense to pick only the parts you like and brush the parts you don't like under the carpet and pretend that they don't exist. That is the most intellectually dishonest behavior I have ever seen. It's either all or nothing.
  2. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    01 Jul '18 10:52
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    If you don't believe the entire Bible is divinely inspired and is completely trustworthy in totality, why do you believe any of it at all? It makes absolutely no sense to pick only the parts you like and brush the parts you don't like under the carpet and pretend that they don't exist. That is the most intellectually dishonest behavior I have ever seen. It's either all or nothing.
    My experience was a gradual one - that is to finally accept the whole Bible as trustworthy.

    That was just my experience of growing in faith, honestly.

    I only mention it because I suspect it would be the experience of at least some others.
  3. 01 Jul '18 10:56
    Originally posted by @sonship
    My experience was a gradual one - that is to finally accept the whole Bible as trustworthy.

    That was just my experience of growing in faith, honestly.
    I appreciate your honestly.

    Presumably therefore, you must accept that it is possible to be a Christian and not accept the whole Bible as trustworthy?
  4. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    01 Jul '18 11:13
    Originally posted by @sonship
    My experience was a gradual one - that is to finally accept the whole Bible as trustworthy.
    Did you believe you were "saved" even when your acceptance of the Bible was incomplete?
  5. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    01 Jul '18 12:39
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    If you don't believe the entire Bible is divinely inspired and is completely trustworthy in totality, why do you believe any of it at all? It makes absolutely no sense to pick only the parts you like and brush the parts you don't like under the carpet and pretend that they don't exist. That is the most intellectually dishonest behavior I have ever seen. It's either all or nothing.
    Why would someone need to trust a book which has changed over the centuries. For me, Jesus has the words of eternal life. For some others being a bible scholar is important. Everyone has their own focus.
  6. Standard member dj2becker
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    01 Jul '18 12:40
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    Why would someone need to trust a book which has changed over the centuries. For me, Jesus has the words of eternal life. For some others being a bible scholar is important. Everyone has their own focus.
    If the Bible has in fact changed over the centuries how do you know that the words of Jesus haven't changed as well?
  7. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    01 Jul '18 12:43
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    If the Bible has in fact changed over the centuries how do you know that the words of Jesus haven't changed as well?
    The words of Jesus did not change. The Bible did.
  8. Standard member dj2becker
    rentrer à la maison
    01 Jul '18 12:45 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    The words of Jesus did not change. The Bible did.
    The words of Jesus are in the Bible. Firstly how do you know that the Bible changed over time and secondly, how do you know which words changed and that the words of Jesus didn't change if other parts did?
  9. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    01 Jul '18 12:50
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    The words of Jesus are in the Bible. How do you know which words changed and that the words of Jesus didn't change if other parts did?
    Books were removed from the Bible over the centuries. Im not talking about words changing.

    Are you interested in being a bible scholar or eternal life?
  10. 01 Jul '18 13:50 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    If you don't believe the entire Bible is divinely inspired and is completely trustworthy in totality, why do you believe any of it at all? It makes absolutely no sense to pick only the parts you like and brush the parts you don't like under the carpet and pretend that they don't exist. That is the most intellectually dishonest behavior I have ever seen. It's either all or nothing.
    It makes absolutely no sense to pick only the parts you like and brush the parts you don't like under the carpet and pretend that they don't exist. That is the most intellectually dishonest behavior I have ever seen.

    Actually the "most intellectually dishonest behavior" comes from those who assert that they DON'T pick and choose what parts they believe.

    The Bible is what it is. The Bible is steeped in metaphor, is widely open to interpretation and contains inconsistencies, discrepancies and outright contradictions. As such, there is no alternative to picking and choosing what parts to believe.
  11. Standard member Velns
    Latvian Trickster
    01 Jul '18 15:04
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    If you don't believe the entire Bible is divinely inspired and is completely trustworthy in totality, why do you believe any of it at all? It makes absolutely no sense to pick only the parts you like and brush the parts you don't like under the carpet and pretend that they don't exist. That is the most intellectually dishonest behavior I have ever seen. It's either all or nothing.
    I don’t carry a strong opinion on this topic but I do remember you describing your all or nothing experiences in a Christian cult and I therefore find myself very surprised to see you propsosing the same cultish philosophy in your approach to the bible.
  12. 01 Jul '18 15:31 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    I appreciate your honestly.

    Presumably therefore, you must accept that it is possible to be a Christian and not accept the whole Bible as trustworthy?
    There is or was a gambling machine in Vegas, into which one fed quarters that made a pile that was gradually pushed forward until its forward edge fell into a trough that returned a number of quarters to the bettor. It illustrates the concept of tipping point, along with demonstrating a psychological explanation for the addictive power of gambling. Denial and release, until the resource runs out.

    It sounds like you are asking, broadly, if there was a tipping point in his scrutiny of the Bible, beyond which, when crossed, Sonship had then become a Christian. It suggests also to me the notion that the tipping point can occur before accepting the whole Bible as trustworthy on the basis of that scrutiny. It seems to me that the acceptance of the whole Bible as trustworthy, without continued scrutiny being needed, would be a "signal moment" of becoming a Christian.( Not necessarily the only signal moment.)
  13. 01 Jul '18 18:57 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @js357
    There is or was a gambling machine in Vegas, into which one fed quarters that made a pile that was gradually pushed forward until its forward edge fell into a trough that returned a number of quarters to the bettor. It illustrates the concept of tipping point, along with demonstrating a psychological explanation for the addictive power of gambling. Denial and ...[text shortened]... d, would be a "signal moment" of becoming a Christian.( Not necessarily the only signal moment.)
    Sonship stated, in his first post in the thread, that as his faith grew (when he was already a Christian of course), that he gradually came to an increasing acceptance that the bible was entirely trustworthy. So apparently there was no “tipping point” for him.

    Neither was there a tipping point for me by the way.

    What I’m asking sonship, quite plainly I think, is whether he now acknowledges that it is possible to be a Christian without necessarily accepting that the entire bible is, or was in his case, completely trustworthy.
  14. Standard member dj2becker
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    01 Jul '18 19:10
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    Sonship stated, in his first post in the thread, that as his faith grew (when he was already a Christian of course), that he gradually came to an increasing acceptance that the bible was entirely trustworthy. So apparently there was no “tipping point” for him.

    Neither was there a tipping point for me by the way.

    What I’m asking sonship, quite plai ...[text shortened]... hout necessarily accepting that the entire bible is, or was in his case, completely trustworthy.
    Since you don’t believe the entire Bible is trustworthy, how do you know which parts you can trust?
  15. Standard member KellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    01 Jul '18 19:35
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    I appreciate your honestly.

    Presumably therefore, you must accept that it is possible to be a Christian and not accept the whole Bible as trustworthy?
    It is not what we accept but Jesus us? I believe you and I can disagree on several points, but if we are one in the Spirit, one in the Lord we are good!