Why aren't you shouting in the street?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I don't think you will ever be satisfied with any answer, so go ahead, continue in your evolution explanation for life and good luck.
Your life as far as evolution has no purpose, no hope and meaningless. Vanity of vanities.

Like I said, you have no answer. You can only fall back on your deep programming.

Originally posted by divegeester
So you are now suddenly not a proponent of the eternal suffering doctrine?

Oh jees dive! I never argued the case that people would burn in torturous agony. But I have argued that people would spend eternity separated from God. The jury is still out on that, especially after reading checkbaiter's posts. He presented a good case for what the second death means in a way that struck a chord with me.

But I'm going to make absolutely sure. If It turns out I was wrong and you are right, then it will apologize in advance and eat crow. Peace!

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Your life as far as evolution has no purpose, no hope and meaningless. Vanity of vanities.

I'm sorry to hear you feel your life is meaningless without your religion. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. Your mention of "vanity of vanities" is interesting. So someone living and dying is the "vanity of vanities" while people telling themselves that they are "immortal" is somehow NOT the "vanity of vanities". That seems ever so the wrong way round to me. 😉

Originally posted by FMF
Can you recall ever confronting any of the Christians here who propagate the 'burning/torture in fire forever' ideology and telling them you find it "repulsive"? I'd interested to see an example of you doing this.

No, I don't recall "confronting" any of the Christians here who propagate that "theology". But I have stated my thoughts about it in this forum with the word "repulsive" concerning eternal punishment in a state of perpetual agony.

I have refrained from direct confrontation with my Christian brothers and sisters in this forum about Christian doctrine. This is not a "Christian" forum, and I refuse to make a spectical of Jesus Christ by debating publicly on matters of faith. Although there have been exceptions.

Originally posted by josephw

No, I don't recall "confronting" any of the Christians here who propagate that "theology". But I have stated my thoughts about it in this forum with the word "repulsive" concerning eternal punishment in a state of perpetual agony.

I have refrained from direct confrontation with my Christian brothers and sisters in this forum about Christian doctrine. This is not a "Christian" forum, and I refuse to make a spectical of Jesus Christ by debating publicly on matters of faith. Although there have been exceptions.

So it would appear you're not one for standing up for what you feel is right and true when it comes to your Christian faith ~ when it involves disputes with other Christians ~ would that be fair to say? Even if your fellow Christians are propagating something "repulsive" about the doctrine you profess to share, confronting them over it would somehow damage Jesus Christ that the "repulsive" ideas do, is that what you mean?

Only four things I'm aware of that can be done with any truth: 1) Ignore it; 2) Distort it; 3) Lie about it; or 4) Tell it.

Edit: 5) Or troll it into oblivion with ancillary comments, *asterisks* and ~tildes~ borne of practiced negative volition.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Only four things I'm aware of that can be done with any truth: 1) Ignore it; 2) Distort it; 3) Lie about it; or 4) Tell it.

josephw has described the ideology of "eternal torture" that you claim is "truth" as "repulsive". Which of your 4 categories does josephw's response fit into?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Edit: 5) Or troll it into oblivion with ancillary comments, *asterisks* and ~tildes~ borne of practiced negative volition.

Don't be so emotional. I have been tackling this topic head on and in a forthright manner. You really should not conduct yourself as if your faith is so brittle and self-regarding if your wish to discuss spiritual matters is sincere.

"Dealing With Trolls:
Rule #1 - Don't feed the troll.
Rule #2 - Seriously, just don't feed the troll. I know it's difficult.
Rule #3 - See Rules #1 and #2.

http://www.webroot.com/us/en/home/resources/tips/pc-security/you-cant-win-an-argument-with-a-troll

@Crowley

Originally posted by josephw
...I have stated my thoughts about it in this forum with the word "repulsive" concerning eternal punishment in a state of perpetual agony. I have refrained from direct confrontation with my Christian brothers and sisters in this forum about Christian doctrine. This is not a "Christian" forum, and I refuse to make a spectical of Jesus Christ by debating publicly on matters of faith. ...

I agree with you that the very notion of a God figure vengefully torturing billions of people for all eternity is "repulsive". Indeed, I'd go as far as to say it's the most "repulsive" idea mankind has ever come up with, bar none. I am just fascinated that you are more concerned about the supposed damage that might be done to Jesus Christ by debating publicly on matters of faith with fellow Christians than you are about the damage that is done by having such an utterly "repulsive" idea associated with Him.

Originally posted by FMF
I'm sorry to hear you feel your life is meaningless without your religion. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. Your mention of "vanity of vanities" is interesting. So someone living and dying is the "vanity of vanities" while people telling themselves that they are "immortal" is somehow NOT the "vanity of vanities". That seems ever so the wrong way round to me. 😉

Not religion as you call it, God, Jesus..make life meaningful and provide hope.
If you have not already, read Ecclesiastes...

Eccl 1:1-2
The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.

2 "Vanity of vanities," says the Preacher;

"Vanity of vanities, all is vanity."
NKJV

Eccl 1:16-18

16 I communed with my heart, saying, "Look, I have attained greatness, and have gained more wisdom than all who were before me in Jerusalem. My heart has understood great wisdom and knowledge." 17 And I set my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is grasping for the wind.

18 For in much wisdom is much grief,
And he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.
NKJV

Eccl 2:17-19
Therefore I hated life because the work that was done under the sun was distressing to me, for all is vanity and grasping for the wind.

18 Then I hated all my labor in which I had toiled under the sun, because I must leave it to the man who will come after me. 19 And who knows whether he will be wise or a fool? Yet he will rule over all my labor in which I toiled and in which I have shown myself wise under the sun. This also is vanity.
NKJV

Eccl 12:13

Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man's all.
NKJV

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Not religion as you call it, God, Jesus..make life meaningful and provide hope.

Yes, a religion: "God, Jesus".

I tend to think the notion of immortality ~ its sheer straw-clutching vanity aside ~ would make life meaningless. I think meaning in life is generated by prioritizing and implementing one's hopes and plans in a realistic and non-superstitious way and it involves a combination of interpersonal relationships - loving and being loved - bringing new life into the world - impacting others in positive and productive ways - always learning, always being curious - always exploring the human condition - starting perhaps with coming to terms with the fact that we all die and that a life seen as a preparation for some imagined continuation after death runs the risk of being an opportunity squandered ~ intellectually, emotionally and spiritually ~ on a narrow and far-fetched ideology.

Originally posted by FMF
[b]No, I don't recall "confronting" any of the Christians here who propagate that "theology". But I have stated my thoughts about it in this forum with the word "repulsive" concerning eternal punishment in a state of perpetual agony.

I have refrained from direct confrontation with my Christian brothers and sisters in this forum about Christian doctrine. This ...[text shortened]... over it would somehow damage Jesus Christ that the "repulsive" ideas do, is that what you mean?

"So it would appear you're not one for standing up for what you feel is right and true when it comes to your Christian faith ~ when it involves disputes with other Christians ~ would that be fair to say?"

No.

Originally posted by josephw
No.

So sometimes you will engage in disputes with other Christians but not over the notion of "eternal torture" that we both agree is "repulsive"?

Originally posted by FMF
Yes, a religion: "God, Jesus".

I tend to think the notion of immortality ~ its sheer straw-clutching vanity aside ~ would make life meaningless. I think meaning in life is generated by prioritizing and implementing one's hopes and plans in a realistic and non-superstitious way and it involves a combination of interpersonal relationships - loving and being lov ...[text shortened]... squandered ~ intellectually, emotionally and spiritually ~ on a narrow and far-fetched ideology.

"I think meaning in life is generated by prioritizing..."

God first. FMF second. 😉