04 Aug 06
Originally posted by EcstremeVenomMore generally speaking, I'm afraid, as I don't believe in your geographical Hell. I care a great deal that you think I'm going to be tortured in Hell, that many of my friends are going to be tortured in your Hell, perhaps even my daughter will be tortured in your Hell. All these people will be tortured for all eternity, and your so-called loving and just God willl let this happen, for all eternity, without ever doing anything to reverse this situation, just because these people are guilty of being dirty, of being human, of being less than perfect and find the idea of blood sacrifice unpalatable. You believe this, and I care about this a great deal. Any intelligent person cares a great deal.
so youre telling me you care about whether the devil tortures you in hell? who cares what goes on down there, just dont ever find out.
You would point out a torture chamber where children are put to the rack and have their nails pulled out et cetera and tell me, "you don't have to care about that place as long as you don't go there." You are a heathen, you are selfish, and you are too entirely hung up on ridiculous answers to serious questions that you never thought up yourself, but instead were told by people even more ignorant than you.
Start thinking about the blood sacrifice, start thinking whether or not it makes sense. Start thinking about children being tortured in hell without any chance of redemption and question the sanity of it. Start thinking for yourself and remember that God can see how you think, that no matter how much you hide from yourself God still sees how dirty you are, and as God is a loving God and a forgiving parent he will welcome you into his arms slime and all. Stop moving away from Him with such immature concepts like torture, punishment, and thoughtlessness, and you will find that dispite your religion, He has been there the whole time, waiting for you to turn around and open your eyes.
04 Aug 06
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Originally posted by thesonofsauli dont believe god would send children to hell, and if he did i wouldnt be a follower. i wish kellyjay were here right now he can argue better than i can lol and i didnt write the rules so dont be mad at me that god sends people to hell, i disagree with that one too.
More generally speaking, I'm afraid, as I don't believe in your geographical Hell. I care a great deal that you think I'm going to be tortured in Hell, that many of my friends are going to be tortured in your Hell, perhaps even my daughter will be tortured in your Hell. All these people will be tortured for all eternity, and your so-called loving and ion, He has been there the whole time, waiting for you to turn around and open your eyes.
04 Aug 06
Originally posted by howardgeeMy parents took me to church as a child. Neither one of my parents really talked about religion in any way, however. I just remember my father dragging us to church and then falling asleep during the service. I just remember thinking that this was ridiculous. He apparently did not want to be there and neither did I. It was a very formal type church with sermons given that made me feel as though I wanted to go to sleep. I think that they were taken to church growing up as well and they decided that it must be a good thing to do for me also. Then one day out of the blue we up and changed churches. I then heard the gospel from a different persepective. It sparked something within me and I desired to know more for myself. My parents did not have a whole lot of imput so I simply picked up a Bible and began reading for myself. I was tired of being confused about a religion that I was part of. I was also tired of people telling me one thing about the Bible and another telling me something totally different. I was determained to understand what it was that that Bible said and to examine if I agreed or wanted anything more to do with it. As I studied, I recognized many of the things I heard in church. Most of what I read, however, made little sense to me, but I still remember something drawing me in as I read. Then one day I felt the urge to respond to an alter call and I went forward. After my conversion I continued to study even more earnestly. It seemed the more I studied the more the simple purity of the gospel revealed itself to me. Till this day the same scriptures I have studied a thousand times over reveal new truths to me. Its as if God speaks to me as I read. No longer do I feel as though I am reading an unknowable text. I have strayed at times from my faith, but something inside me continues to draw me in despite this. Its as if I cannot escape the inner presence of God that filled me after my conversion. Nothing I have experienced outside my faith comes close to comparing to it.
Who was it who brain-washed you...er, I mean.. introduced you to the Lord?
Before this, however, I remember always felt as though something were missing inside me. I remember asking my mom about it but she had no real answers for me, and was clueless about what I might be asking about. I just brushed this feelilng aside and went about my life. Many years passed but the feeling still nagged at me as I continued to brush it aside. Looking back, however, I can now see that this feeling went away after my conversion.
And there you have it. No great testimony about being converted from a life of drug use, or being a mass murderer etc. It was more of a personal pursuit than someone beating me over the head with the Bible.
04 Aug 06
Originally posted by howardgeeWhat I mean is that I feel as though I have found the truth about the reality of things within God's word. No longer am I brainwashed with disbelief from worldly sources. Now I have a faith and hope and a love that the world says does not exist. I know that it does exist, however. I just wish other could experience it.
Not at all - just read his posts!
And he admitted it himself, which you would realise if you bothered to read threads before posting.
05 Aug 06
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Originally posted by whodeyreally? it was the other way around for me, but thats a whole different issue lol
Before this, however, I remember always felt as though something were missing inside me. I remember asking my mom about it but she had no real answers for me, and was clueless about what I might be asking about. I just brushed this feelilng aside and went about my life. Many years passed but the feeling still nagged at me as I continued to brush it aside. Looking back, however, I can now see that this feeling went away after my conversion.
05 Aug 06
Originally posted by EcstremeVenomYour wording is curious. "i dont believe god would send children to hell, and if he did i wouldnt be a follower." Does this mean that if you were reading the Bible one day and you suddenly realized, oh my, God must send children to Hell for their disbelief, that you would stop following God? This makes no sense, and truly marks your reasoning as flawed. Watch the coin carefully here.
i dont believe god would send children to hell, and if he did i wouldnt be a follower. i wish kellyjay were here right now he can argue better than i can lol and i didnt write the rules so dont be mad at me that god sends people to hell, i disagree with that one too.
1. You have faith in the Christian God and the Bible that you say is His only Word.
2. You then find something you disagree with, like the sending of children to Hell, so you reject God.
3. Your faith is then gone, so you no longer have faith in the Bible, the truth of which you accepted on that faith.
4. Now that the Bible need not be true, it is all together possible that God doesn't send children to Hell, or whatever it was you disagreed with.
5. If God doesn't do that disreputable thing, you can follow Him again.
6. You race to the nearest Christian church (as that's where God lives) and there's that Bible thing again. Oops. Now that you have faith again, God is back at it, burning children and innocents.
My point is that faith in God and faith in the Bible are not inseperable. You do not need to believe in the need for blood sacrifice to believe that God forgives you and like the father of the Prodigal Son welcomes you back with a party. Did that father need some sort of sacrifice to hug his child? No. He didn't even ask any questions. There is Christ himself supposedly showing that there is no need for blood sacrifice.
In the end who is saying what? Is God the one saying hug your child despite the grime, or is He the one saying I can't touch you until you are washed in blood?
Contradictory statements like this show that the Bible was written by Man for Man, and for Man's ends. God speaks through it of course as God speaks in everything, but you can always recognize His voice. You know what it sounds like. You've heard it. Only, you need to stop thinking that the light actually comes from the moon.
05 Aug 06
Originally posted by thesonofsaulim not contradicting myself i think sending children to hell would be wrong, and i would have to disagree. i wouldnt say any more than that, id probably be blaspheming lol.
Your wording is curious. "i dont believe god would send children to hell, and if he did i wouldnt be a follower." Does this mean that if you were reading the Bible one day and you suddenly realized, oh my, God must send children to Hell for their disbelief, that you would stop following God? This makes no sense, and truly marks your reasoning as flaw ...[text shortened]... eard it. Only, you need to stop thinking that the light actually comes from the moon.
05 Aug 06
Originally posted by thesonofsaulAs I have stated in previous posts, it is fruitless to ask the question as to whether or not someone is going to heaven or to hell. This is because we are not the ones making the decision. All we know is what God tells us. In terms of children, I would assume there would be an age of accountability. After all, God is just and would only hold those accountable who were mentally and psychologically able to do make such a decision. I would imagine this would include adults who are equally unable to be accountable mentally or pshycologically. Your assumption about him sending children to hell is based on the belief that he is not just. Here is what we know about God via the Bible
Your wording is curious. "i dont believe god would send children to hell, and if he did i wouldnt be a follower." Does this mean that if you were reading the Bible one day and you suddenly realized, oh my, God must send children to Hell for their disbelief, that you would stop following God? This makes no sense, and truly marks your reasoning as flaw ...[text shortened]... eard it. Only, you need to stop thinking that the light actually comes from the moon.
1. He is just.
2. He is loving
3. He responds to faith
4. Through Christ we have hope of eternal life. He is the only way for salvation.
5. There have been those who have inherited eternal life before the time of Christ.
Those that have been recorded as dying before the time of Christ and inheriting eternal life are those such as Abraham and Moses etc. I personally believe that this was only through Christ even though his sacrifice had not been accomplished as of yet. What is clear is that these men walked by faith and through their faith it was accounted as righteousness for them. Moses, in fact, even wrote about the Messiah as mentioned in a previous thread. Perhaps men of faith such as Abraham and Moses knew beforehand about the Messiah and placed their faith in him before they died. One can only speculate, however. You can also speculate about those who have never heard the message of the gospel. How will God judge them? You can also speculate about those who place their faith in God, such as the Jews and Muslims, but reject the Messiah. You can also speculate about those who are not able to make such a decision based on being developmentally able to do so. The list goes on and on. The Bible really does not go into detail about such issues, hwoever, Much is assumed based on ones personal belief as to the nature of God. As for my belief, I believe that as the Bible says ALL are saved via one name and that is of Christ. Also I believe that God is just and benevolent and is not a repector of persons. He will sort things out according to what is just.