Why is hell required in religion?

Originally posted by KellyJay
An agreement is just, providing that is what it is, if you are being forced into something that really isn't an agreement now is it? While choices are offered and offers are accepted are in play, yes I think an agreement is just.

I see you are a capitalist. I am not.
You seem to be totally ignoring the fact that alternative choices does not equal better alternative choices.
If I offered you fifty ways to die, would that make dying fair because you got to choose?
Does the robber who says "your money or your life" therefore make the agreement you eventually strike with him a fair one?

Look at what the minimum wage has done in America, a lot of small businesses now
will not hire someone with no skills so they can train them in a craft, instead they
want someone who knows their jobs already, the minimum wage has priced out of
jobs those that have little or no skills making entry level work harder to find. When
you start making "a fair wage" based on something other than what a company
can pay for entry level jobs it negatively affects those trying to get into the work
force.
Kelly
Yes I know about basic economics and the effects of minimum wages (a result by the way of an agreement being struck between Unions and employers - thus 'just' and 'fair' in your opinion). But what does the effect of minimum wage have to do with whether a wage is fair?

Originally posted by KellyJay
An additional point, I'm assuming we are talking about a level playing field with
respect to both employees and business, collusion by either is not a level playing
field.
Kelly

There is no such thing as a level playing field.

I am still at a loss as to how fair wages (or not) has anything to do with punishment for crimes and whether such punishment is inherently just or necessary.

This guys site is a good one:
http://jeremysams.blogspot.com/2011/01/what-sends-men-to-hell.html

Originally posted by twhitehead
I am still at a loss as to how fair wages (or not) has anything to do with punishment for crimes and whether such punishment is inherently just or necessary.

One thing deserves another, if you work for someone else a wage is just of some
kind.
Kelly

Originally posted by twhitehead
There is no such thing as a level playing field.

Than why worry about anyone getting cheated? There is either a right way to do
things or not.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Than why worry about anyone getting cheated? There is either a right way to do
things or not.
Kelly

That is the typical 'you are with me or against me' attitude of Bush. Life is simply not that black and white. There are better ways and worse ways of doing things. If I see a better way, then I prefer it.
Your suggestion that something is either totally right, or totally wrong just doesn't work in real life.
I generally accept an unfair wage because I have no better choice. That doesn't make it fair, and it doesn't mean I like it. I think there are major flaws in the capitalist system and I think I am being exploited.

So, back to my analogy:
Robber: "Your money or your life!"
Kelly: "Who cares, I'm loosing something anyway! Neither choice is 'right' therefore I don't care."

Originally posted by KellyJay
One thing deserves another, if you work for someone else a wage is just of some
kind.
Kelly

That makes sense (barter) when both parties are benefiting. It doesn't make sense when one or both parties are suffering.
It does not follow from:
If I give you a cow, then it is right that you give me something in return.
that
If I give you a punch then it is right that you hurt me in return.