Originally posted by dj2beckerNow that's a surprise. It must be satisfying to attend a school where the academics are so rigorous that study does not begin until the evening before the exam.
I'm actaully writing an exam 2morrow, and I havn't studied for it yet. I'll get back to you 2morrow after my exam. Good night.
Originally posted by orfeoSo the answer is "no".
You strongly implied a contrast between theists who worshipped and atheists who got on with improving the cosmos, yes. Although your grasp on the use of language is not so solid that I'm convinced that's what you MEANT.
An implication of a contrast is not a definitive mutual exclusion.
It is clear you are not a full lawyer.
Originally posted by howardgeeYour analogy is absurd. If you insist, I'll gladly tear it apart, limb for limb... ðŸ˜
So come on all you God botherers;
IF you were a teacher who could do anything, and you schooled a group of children to go out and do your biding.
What would you think if they all just wanted to stay in the class and worship you?
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Originally posted by WulebgrI suggest you take a look at this thread: "An argument for free will/suffering and evil."
Thank you. That's all I've asked for from you. Support your assertions with rational thought and evidence. Clearly Hell is biblical. Now, explain how an omniscient omnipotent God can permit the existence of evil. Do so rationally.
http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=29922
Originally posted by dj2beckerI did, again. You have four posts there that collectively add zero to the discussion.
I suggest you take a look at this thread: "An argument for free will/suffering and evil."
http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=29922
Show me where I have attacked Halitose or ivanhoe--the only posters who made an effort to engage bbarr in that thread. I haven't. Indeed, I've recced several posts by each, although I rarely agree with either.
DJ, you, BF, and RB clog up these forums with repetitive expressions of weak-minded faith, sometimes complicated by gross errors in reasoning, bigotry, ignorance, and efforts to condemn those who make an effort to engage you in rational and civil conversation.
Originally posted by howardgeeVery well dude... Here goes:
why don't you just answer the question?
God is supposed to be omniscient, so he knows if you love him or not and he knows your problems without you having to pray for him to fix them.
And what makes you (or me, for that matter) the authority on whether God wants us to ask for something or not? Your question is unanswerable without looking to God's special revelation:
Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
2. Imagine if you were an omnipotent teacher and you gave your pupils free reign to go out into the world and do good deeds. You would be very disappointed with those pupils who decided to just stay in the class room and tell you how wonderful you were, and plead with you to make the world outside better! God must shake his head in disappointment at those pathetic fawning weaklings in church trying to suck up their way into heaven.
As I said before, this analogy is disingenuous and absurd. If God was a teacher, then the "classroom" would be the universe. It doesn't matter where you are in the universe, God is fully aware of your praise or prayer. I for one am trying to make my world a better place, and I wager that there are many Christian who do. Your analogy assumes that most Christians just sit in church and whine to God. Please. Substantiate - as I've asked you many times before - these prejudiced, absurd, sweeping statements. Why should you be able to make unsubstantiated ludicrous statements ad nausium about Christianity and then you shift the burden of proof onto the Christian's shoulders to prove you wrong. Maybe I should start my own thread claiming that atheists only sit on their @$$es and do nothing to impove their world. Wouldn't that be fun... childing namecalling and gross unsubstantiated claims of stereotyping and vitriol. Puleeese... get a life.
Originally posted by HalitoseDude, you're valuabe here. So buy some breath mints and a membership.
Very well dude... Here goes:
[b]God is supposed to be omniscient, so he knows if you love him or not and he knows your problems without you having to pray for him to fix them.
And what makes you (or me, for that matter) the authority on whether God wants us to ask for something or not? Your question is unanswerable without looking to God's specia ...[text shortened]... amecalling and gross unsubstantiated claims of stereotyping and vitriol. Puleeese... get a life.[/b]
Originally posted by Halitose
And what makes you (or me, for that matter) the authority on whether God wants us to ask for something or not? Your question is unanswerable without looking to God's special revelation:
Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
If god already knows all these things, what would you suggest is the necessity in having to ask him?
As I said before, this analogy is disingenuous and absurd. If God was a teacher, then the "classroom" would be the universe. It doesn't matter where you are in the universe, God is fully aware of your praise or prayer. I for one am trying to make my world a better place, and I wager that there are many Christian who do. Your analogy assumes that most Christians just sit in church and whine to God. Please. Substantiate - as I've asked you many times before - these prejudiced, absurd, sweeping statements. Why should you be able to make unsubstantiated ludicrous statements ad nausium about Christianity and then you shift the burden of proof onto the Christian's shoulders to prove you wrong. Maybe I should start my own thread claiming that atheists only sit on their @$$es and do nothing to impove their world. Wouldn't that be fun... childing namecalling and gross unsubstantiated claims of stereotyping and vitriol. Puleeese... get a life.
Actually I think the analogy is fairly reasonable. If you consider the classroom to be a church, it is sensible enough to look at those Christians (certainly the majority of the ones I have met) that simply go to church (attend school) and spend their time there praising god and then being given free roam of the world, choose to wait until the next lesson to remember their religion.
Originally posted by StarrmanIf god already knows all these things, what would you suggest is the necessity in having to ask him?
Originally posted by Halitose
[b]And what makes you (or me, for that matter) the authority on whether God wants us to ask for something or not? Your question is unanswerable without looking to God's special revelation:
Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
If god already ...[text shortened]... g given free roam of the world, choose to wait until the next lesson to remember their religion.[/b]
Prayer is not about need, but communication. If God knows us perfectly, how are we to know Him? If you've ever had charity shoved down your throat you'll understand the necessity of asking.
Actually I think the analogy is fairly reasonable.
And again comes the point that the people who had the greatest influence for good on the earth were religious and were men of prayer.
(certainly the majority of the ones I have met)
Yes, England is full of half-baked Christians. Get out more...
Originally posted by RatX
Prayer is not about need, but communication. If God knows us perfectly, how are we to know Him? If you've ever had charity shoved down your throat you'll understand the necessity of asking.
I fail to see why god's being known to us should follow from us asking him for something. Again, why should it be that, knowing everything, god cannot make himself known without prayer?
And again comes the point that the people who had the greatest influence for good on the earth were religious and were men of prayer.
This is just not true and even if it were, there is no evidence to suggest that their acts for goodness were not based on an entirely seperate set of values, their religion being an addendum to their natural propensity for goodness.
Yes, England is full of half-baked Christians. Get out more...
As far as I'm concerned, the half-bakedness is pandemic.
Originally posted by StarrmanI fail to see why god's being known to us should follow from us asking him for something. Again, why should it be that, knowing everything, god cannot make himself known without prayer?
Originally posted by RatX
[b]Prayer is not about need, but communication. If God knows us perfectly, how are we to know Him? If you've ever had charity shoved down your throat you'll understand the necessity of asking.
I fail to see why god's being known to us should follow from us asking him for something. Again, why should it be that, ...[text shortened]... d Christians. Get out more...[/b]
As far as I'm concerned, the half-bakedness is pandemic.[/b]
I could spend a lot of time and type on this, but as I said, prayer isn't about asking, but communicating. Getting to know God. You get to know God by how he answers your prayers (otherwise you're just sitting there with blessings/curses/yes/no/nothings falling all about without a clue why.
This is just not true and even if it were, there is no evidence to suggest that their acts for goodness were not based on an entirely seperate set of values, their religion being an addendum to their natural propensity for goodness.
You're either ignorant or willfully ignorant (I don't think you're stupid... yet). Here are just a few of the people who've had a positive influence on the world who were religious and often men of prayer (could pick them out):
Rembrandt Harmensz Van Rijn
Johann Sebastian Bach
George Frideric Handel
John Bunyan
Harriet Beecher Stowe
Fyodor Dostoyevsky
George MacDonald
G.K. Chesterton
Dorothy Sayers
C.S. Lewis
Dante Alighieri
Geoffrey Chaucer
John Donne
George Herbert
John Milton
Anne Bradstreet
Isaac Watts
Charles Wesley
Fanny Crosby
T.S. Eliot
Francis of Assisi
Joan of Arc
Søren Kierkegaard
John Woolman
William Wilberforce
Elizabeth Fry
Sojourner Truth
William Booth
Nicholas Copernicus
Francis Bacon
Galileo Galilei
Johannes Kepler
Rene Descartes
Isaac Newton
Robert Boyle
Michael Faraday
Gregor Mendel
Kelvin
Max Planck
If you read some of their writings, it'll blow out your "there is no evidence to suggest their acts for goodness were not based on entirely seperate set of values". They confirmed that they were acting because of their faith. If you'd like, I could dig up some of their quotes to prove this...
As far as I'm concerned, the half-bakedness is pandemic.
There I agree with you...