Originally posted by OdBodIf the Bible is true (which I believe) than there is a beginning and prophecy to tell us how this is all going to end. It also shows us what is and isn't important according to God. Our ignorance about how its going to end and why leave us wandering around in the dark needlessly.
Doesn't mater if the book is true or false, if we can progress towards a more humane society that must suit a god if it exists.Seems like a win win situation.
Originally posted by KellyJayJust a hypothetical question.Would you give up your religion in exchange for a caring supportive society where we try to look after each other?
If the Bible is true (which I believe) than there is a beginning and prophecy to tell us how this is all going to end. It also shows us what is and isn't important according to God. Our ignorance about how its going to end and why leave us wandering around in the dark needlessly.
Originally posted by OdBodI assume I live in one of those societies now. My faith says that within us is a broken nature that causes us to sin. That nature brings out the worst in us. So we more times than not are acting on our selfish ways which could cause us to just act on our own self interest, or completely evil, or some level between.
Just a hypothetical question.Would you give up your religion in exchange for a caring supportive society where we try to look after each other?
Christ can change all of that by giving up His life for us.
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Originally posted by EladarA good question that touches the point I have been making. If you or anyone wants to be a godless Christian who cares why anyone wants that! If Jesus isn't central than personal wants, desires, lusts, and so on drives the reason anyone takes the name Christian upon oneself, not Jesus.
What are you concerned with, the temporary here and no or the eternal?
That goes for everyone.
Jesus Christ took our sins upon Himself so we could be forgiven in Christ. If Jesus isn't our Lord because He deserves to be than why call oneself Christian other than some selfish reason. It should be what Jesus deserve and desires not what we get out of it!
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Originally posted by KellyJayJesus Christ took our sins upon Himself so we could be forgiven in Christ. If Jesus isn't our Lord because He deserves to be than why call oneself Christian other than some selfish reason. It should be what Jesus deserve and desires not what we get out of it!
A good question that touches the point I have been making. If you or anyone wants to be a godless Christian who cares why anyone wants that! If Jesus isn't central than personal wants, desires, lusts, and so on drives the reason anyone takes the name Christian upon oneself, not Jesus.
Jesus Christ took our sins upon Himself so we could be forgiven in Chr ...[text shortened]... than some selfish reason. It should be what Jesus deserve and desires not what we get out of it!
The belief that "Jesus Christ took our sins upon Himself so we could be forgiven in Christ" IS a selfish reason for "call[ing] oneself Christian".
The belief that "My faith says that within us is a broken nature that causes us to sin" IS also a selfish reason for "call[ing] oneself Christian".
They are both what you "get out of it".
For the first you "get" to have the belief that your sins are forgiven.
For the second you "get" to have the belief that your sin is not your fault.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneWhat do you think should be the real reason for calling oneself a Christian?
[b]Jesus Christ took our sins upon Himself so we could be forgiven in Christ. If Jesus isn't our Lord because He deserves to be than why call oneself Christian other than some selfish reason. It should be what Jesus deserve and desires not what we get out of it!
The belief that "Jesus Christ took our sins upon Himself so we could be forgiven in Chr ...[text shortened]... ins are forgiven.
For the second you "get" to have the belief that your sin is not your fault.[/b]
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Originally posted by FetchmyjunkThe point of my post was to point out that KJ both claimed that it shouldn't be for selfish reasons and had cited a selfish reason in that very post and another selfish reason earlier.
What do you think should be the real reason for calling oneself a Christian?
I took "[reason for] calling oneself a Christian" as a way of saying "reason for being a Christian". The label itself doesn't matter.
If you're asking for reasons for being a "Christian" that isn't selfish, it would be to humbly follow the teachings of Jesus without expecting, asking, wanting or even caring about getting anything in return.
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeI agree, the point should be what would Jesus get out of it. Our righteousness isn't a matter
I'd imagine it was someone who followed the teachings of Christ. (Not as a means to dodge or excuse sin).
of our own efforts but His efforts, our desires to serve Him should be because He is very
worthy. He has to be our sure foundation or we risk putting ourselves and our desires
above Him.
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Originally posted by KellyJayWhat exactly makes Jesus "very worthy" in your eyes?
I agree, the point should be what would Jesus get out of it. Our righteousness isn't a matter
of our own efforts but His efforts, our desires to serve Him should be because He is very
worthy. He has to be our sure foundation or we risk putting ourselves and our desires
above Him.
Isn't it because you believe that "Jesus Christ took our sins upon Himself so we could be forgiven in Christ" as you stated earlier?
If so, then your reason is selfish.