23 Jun '18 11:03>3 edits
In the The God Who Hates thread this morning (my time in Greece) KellyJay asked me to tell him why I think The doctrine of eternal suffering is wrong. Obviously I’m a little surprised that question as it’s been one of the most discussed topics in this forum in the last several years and I would have thought my position on this is quite clear. But I’ll lay it out once again and see if anyone wants to contest me on it.
1) Moral abhorrence: supernaturally keeping people in existence in order to burn them alive for all eternity is morally abhorrent no matter what the person has done, let alone for refusing to or being unable to believe in a God who incidentally says he loves you so much despite the torture.
2) Hypocrisy and bullying: torturing people because they don’t believe in you as a god is religious terrorism of the highest order. It is worse than all of the religious and ethnic crimes of the entire world put together. It makes Islamic terrorism, beheadings and the like, look like child’s play. It makes the burning alive of the American pilot look like a blessed relief until the poor bastard met the heller’s version of Jesus once he got to the pearly gates.
3) Gospel incoherence: John 3:16 “For God (Jesus) SO...loved the (entire) world, that he gave his only son so that whosoever believes in him will have everlasting life.” The hellers split the hairs over this calling out “whosoever” as the differentiator and completely miss the point that differentiator or not... the god who loved me will now burn me alive for eternity out of HIS choice! It’s does not make sense on any level.
4) Scriptural literalism: every description of hell and eternal suffering in the bible is parabolic, metaphorical, visionary/dream-state. The hellers ignore this and CHOOSE to take it as being literal despite ignoring all the other crazy dream-state things in the bible such as whores riding multi-headed beasts while drinking cups of Christian blood. You CHOOSE to accept this aberration of eternal suffering as being literal.
5) Unnecessary for salvation: I often ask sonship things like “if I reject your version of the Trinity will I be precluded from being filled with the spirit of Christ and subsequently from salvation?” He refuses to answer because his vanity won’t allow him to admit that his precious doctrines are really not that important when it comes to Jesus Christ. Same with eternal suffering IT IS NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION, so who cares? Why defend it, why not abandon it and give the mercy of God a chance you bunch of fire-breathing hell-mongers?
6) Slander of Christ : other that the general irrationality of faith itself, the propagation of eternal torture is without doubt the biggest turn off for most non-Christians, non theists. It is a horrible thing to say of our Lord and a sleight on his perfect nature and loving merciful disposition. And no matter how many times you quote “it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living god” ... doesn’t make burning people in hell for eternity morally acceptable, scripturally sound nor gospel coherent.
7) It is a belief that bad for you spiritually: to harbour these beliefs is bad for you. To believe that it is “God’s perfect justice” and that “the lost (the billions of lost people) will glorify Jesus in their endless woe” has to be two of the most disgraceful things I’ve ever heard a Christian utter.
Christ died for the world, for the people of the world, he did this once and for ALL and while we were still sinners. He did this because of the love he has for every single person on this planet who ever has and who ever will live, even pre-birth.
What happens to the non-“whosoevers” after this is irrelevant, but it won’t be Jesus in hell supervising their eternal torture that is for sure.
I hope I’ve now made myself clear to you on this matter KellyJay?
1) Moral abhorrence: supernaturally keeping people in existence in order to burn them alive for all eternity is morally abhorrent no matter what the person has done, let alone for refusing to or being unable to believe in a God who incidentally says he loves you so much despite the torture.
2) Hypocrisy and bullying: torturing people because they don’t believe in you as a god is religious terrorism of the highest order. It is worse than all of the religious and ethnic crimes of the entire world put together. It makes Islamic terrorism, beheadings and the like, look like child’s play. It makes the burning alive of the American pilot look like a blessed relief until the poor bastard met the heller’s version of Jesus once he got to the pearly gates.
3) Gospel incoherence: John 3:16 “For God (Jesus) SO...loved the (entire) world, that he gave his only son so that whosoever believes in him will have everlasting life.” The hellers split the hairs over this calling out “whosoever” as the differentiator and completely miss the point that differentiator or not... the god who loved me will now burn me alive for eternity out of HIS choice! It’s does not make sense on any level.
4) Scriptural literalism: every description of hell and eternal suffering in the bible is parabolic, metaphorical, visionary/dream-state. The hellers ignore this and CHOOSE to take it as being literal despite ignoring all the other crazy dream-state things in the bible such as whores riding multi-headed beasts while drinking cups of Christian blood. You CHOOSE to accept this aberration of eternal suffering as being literal.
5) Unnecessary for salvation: I often ask sonship things like “if I reject your version of the Trinity will I be precluded from being filled with the spirit of Christ and subsequently from salvation?” He refuses to answer because his vanity won’t allow him to admit that his precious doctrines are really not that important when it comes to Jesus Christ. Same with eternal suffering IT IS NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION, so who cares? Why defend it, why not abandon it and give the mercy of God a chance you bunch of fire-breathing hell-mongers?
6) Slander of Christ : other that the general irrationality of faith itself, the propagation of eternal torture is without doubt the biggest turn off for most non-Christians, non theists. It is a horrible thing to say of our Lord and a sleight on his perfect nature and loving merciful disposition. And no matter how many times you quote “it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living god” ... doesn’t make burning people in hell for eternity morally acceptable, scripturally sound nor gospel coherent.
7) It is a belief that bad for you spiritually: to harbour these beliefs is bad for you. To believe that it is “God’s perfect justice” and that “the lost (the billions of lost people) will glorify Jesus in their endless woe” has to be two of the most disgraceful things I’ve ever heard a Christian utter.
Christ died for the world, for the people of the world, he did this once and for ALL and while we were still sinners. He did this because of the love he has for every single person on this planet who ever has and who ever will live, even pre-birth.
What happens to the non-“whosoevers” after this is irrelevant, but it won’t be Jesus in hell supervising their eternal torture that is for sure.
I hope I’ve now made myself clear to you on this matter KellyJay?