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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeThis refers to predestination, which is another concept all together. I believe in limited predestination (don’t know the doctrinal or theological word for that, but basically God chooses some people to be saved and He made that decision “before the creation of the world.&rdquo😉
'Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.' (Ephesians1:3-6).
Try again.
The reason I don’t believe in predestination without restriction is that obviously would be in conflict with Jesus Christ’s command concerning the Great Commission. If God has already decided everyone who is going to be saved and everyone who is not, what is the point of evangelizing and the Great Commission? That also would make a mockery of man having free will.
But I do believe some people were predestined to be saved because the numerous verses in the Bible that support the concept of predestination can’t be ignored.
Originally posted by @romans1009Are you in that predestined group?
This refers to predestination, which is another concept all together. I believe in limited predestination (don’t know the doctrinal or theological word for that, but basically God chooses some people to be saved and He made that decision “before the creation of the world.&rdquo😉
The reason I don’t believe in predestination without restriction is that obvio ...[text shortened]... se the numerous verses in the Bible that support the concept of predestination can’t be ignored.
Originally posted by @romans1009You have replied here in a really earnest but oblivious way to a post that was completely ironic and obviously so. I was replying to a non-believer. My words were satirical.
We decide if we accept God’s gift of salvation; God doesn’t decide for us.
God gave us free will to choose how we want to live and whether we want to believe in Him or not.
We can hardly blame God for our decisions.
Originally posted by @romans1009Do you have any evidence that some of your thoughts regarding your religion originate in the organ that pumps blood and not in the organ where all other thoughts originate?
“Head belief,” or coming to a conclusion that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh after reviewing the evidence for His divinity, can lead to “heart belief,” but I think accepting Christ as one’s Lord and Saviour and thereby obtaining salvation is done in the heart.
Originally posted by @romans1009If you are not then you cannot use any portion of the book of Ephesians as doctrine which applies to you.
No idea but I doubt it. While I always believed in God’s existence, I only came to believe Jesus Christ was God in the flesh about four years ago.
Paul's letter to the Ephesians was written specifically to that group predestined by God.
I have seen you quote from that book as if it applies to you or Christians generally
Originally posted by @romans1009So you have only been professing this dogma you are reciting for a relatively short time, then. A mere four years.
No idea but I doubt it. While I always believed in God’s existence, I only came to believe Jesus Christ was God in the flesh about four years ago.
But it's long enough, apparently, for you to "know" that people with different beliefs from you ~ like me ~ have "a finite mind and limited understanding and perspective" as opposed to your?
I'd be interested to hear if this kind of 'debating' has been successful for you in the propagation of your beliefs these last four years.
Originally posted by @fmfI thought we went over this. I know “belief in the heart” is a concept you don’t grasp or agree with, so I referred to it as a strong, sincere, committed and self-sacrificing belief in order to distinguish it from intellectual belief.
Do you have any evidence that some of your thoughts regarding your religion originate in the organ that pumps blood and not in the organ where all other thoughts originate?
And certainly love would, in my mind, originate in the heart, so more than belief in Jesus Christ originated there, in my opinion.
Originally posted by @romans1009No, it was not in response to one of your posts. You have got it wrong. It was in response to one of someone else's posts.
Your post was in response to one of my posts so I naturally figured it was addressed to me.
Originally posted by @rajk999I would have to see the verses you’re referring to before I could respond. Do you know what verses from Ephesians I quoted? I recall quoting quite a few verses from Galatians but can’t recall any from Ephesians. Not saying I didn’t; I just don’t recall them.
If you are not then you cannot use any portion of the book of Ephesians as doctrine which applies to you.
Paul's letter to the Ephesians was written specifically to that group predestined by God.
I have seen you quote from that book as if it applies to you or Christians generally
Originally posted by @romans1009The thought-certainty that one can "accept Jesus as one's Lord and saviour" originates in the mind in precisely the same way as the thought-certainty that they will be reincarnated originates in the minds of Hindus. The "heart" is a metaphor for the mind when one is talking about emotional thoughts.
I thought we went over this. I know “belief in the heart” is a concept you don’t grasp or agree with, so I referred to it as a strong, sincere, committed and self-sacrificing belief in order to distinguish it from intellectual belief.
And certainly love would, in my mind, originate in the heart, so more than belief in Jesus Christ originated there, in my opinion.
Originally posted by @fmfYou’re mischaracterizing what I said - I tend to think intentionally, but I know you have a bad memory so I leave open the possibility that it’s an accident.
So you have only been professing this dogma you are reciting for a relatively short time, then. A mere four years.
But it's long enough, apparently, for you to "know" that people with different beliefs from you ~ like me ~ have "a finite mind and limited understanding and perspective" as opposed to your?
I'd be interested to hear if this kind of 'debating' has been successful for you in the propagation of your beliefs these last four years.
<<But it's long enough, apparently, for you to "know" that people with different beliefs from you ~ like me ~ have "a finite mind and limited understanding and perspective" as opposed to your?>>
We all, as humans, have a finite mind and limited understanding and perspective, and I never claimed otherwise or claimed I was an exception. I had written what you quoted in response to your attempt to know all the ways of an omniscient, eternal and completely holy God. Because you have a finite mind and limited understanding and perspective - like all humans - it’s simply not possible to know everything about God.
Originally posted by @fmf<So you have only been professing this dogma you are reciting for a relatively short time, then. A mere four years.>
So you have only been professing this dogma you are reciting for a relatively short time, then. A mere four years.
But it's long enough, apparently, for you to "know" that people with different beliefs from you ~ like me ~ have "a finite mind and limited understanding and perspective" as opposed to your?
I'd be interested to hear if this kind of 'debating' has been successful for you in the propagation of your beliefs these last four years.
I am neither reciting nor professing dogma. I’m responding to questions and posts with original writing that concern my sincere and heartfelt beliefs.