21 Jul 08
Originally posted by CrowleyI think the point is that it only becomes infringing when you exceed the referees interpretation. The refs get IRB interpretation given to them, some are more lenient and let games flow others blow the whistle at every perceived infringement. There can be no winning for refs, esp with SA fans unless they let boks get away with murder and blow everything up against the opposition. Most other countries pick on refs for stop start games or very specific lapses like missed forward passes that cost games.. lol
Well, I did say the bok forwards should've changed their gameplan when they saw the wallabies infringing.
The wallabies definitely DID infringe.
I don't really care what your club player buddies think.
28-15 to the all blacks
22 Jul 08
Originally posted by Tirau DanNow you're just being silly.
I think the point is that it only becomes infringing when you exceed the referees interpretation. The refs get IRB interpretation given to them, some are more lenient and let games flow others blow the whistle at every perceived infringement. There can be no winning for refs, esp with SA fans unless they let boks get away with murder and blow everything ...[text shortened]... fs for stop start games or very specific lapses like missed forward passes that cost games.. lol
If this is how the ref interpreted the rules on Saturday, then he is an idiot who should go back to blowing Harlequin games where the players apparently also don't know the rules.
The rules are pretty clear on the subject of having hands in the ruck, especially if you are off your feet.
22 Jul 08
Originally posted by CrowleyAnd you say the ref saw this and doesn't know the rules or close to cheat.
Now you're just being silly.
If this is how the ref interpreted the rules on Saturday, then he is an idiot who should go back to blowing Harlequin games where the players apparently also don't know the rules.
The rules are pretty clear on the subject of having hands in the ruck, especially if you are off your feet.
We hear this from you so often that we come to expect and enjoy it as Crowley's Crowing.
But wait there more:
All the refs have a conspiracy to gang up on SA.
That's called waffle from a disgruntled fan.
I couldn't find an expert to agree with you but did find this basic description of the problem we are debating so it will make some sense to those who aren't quite sure of the rule. (This from BBC sport)
"None of the tackler's team-mates can attempt to handle or pick up the ball once the ruck has formed.
Team-mates of the tackled player can use their hands, but only if they are on their feet.
Referees often blow up for penalties because a player off their feet or from the tackler's team has used a subtle hand to bring it back to their side.
But because of the sheer number of bodies involved in rucks, referees can sometimes miss this particular infringement. "
22 Jul 08
Originally posted by Tirau DanI wouldn't say there's a conspiracy, but SA players/teams almost always get the short end of the stick when it comes to 50/50 decisions...
And you say the ref saw this and doesn't know the rules or close to cheat.
We hear this from you so often that we come to expect and enjoy it as Crowley's Crowing.
But wait there more:
All the refs have a conspiracy to gang up on SA.
That's called waffle from a disgruntled fan.
I couldn't find an expert to agree with you but did find this bas ...[text shortened]... f bodies involved in rucks, referees can sometimes miss this particular infringement. "
Can you explain why? Because I've run out of ideas.
I think SA players have this 'dirty players' stigma around them, which is patently not true.
22 Jul 08
1 edit
If there is a lean somewhere I haven't noticed but SA are notorious sledgers of the ref on and off the field.. maybe the refs are sick of it. Did Robbie refusing the refs pregame tea party before the game sway the ref.. robbie didn't go because he didn't have any ref issues and just wanted to concentrate on the game. I'm sure SA would be most ref lease fav team to ref. Seriously.
but laugh; SA have always been overtly dirty and hard way too open! In the modern game they need to learn to read refs and play to the whistle pattern. when the French get dirty they do it under a ruck or on the blind. haha they do it with panache
Now they've become to rugby refs what the Pakistanis are to cricket umpires .. haha the Aussies have the market on player sledging but know to suck up politely to the ref at any opportunity. Sa should start trying to ignore perceive wrongs and get on while smiling sweetly at the ref.
22 Jul 08
Originally posted by Tirau DanI'm not really sure about this, as I've seen most teams 'sledge' the ref.
If there is a lean somewhere I haven't noticed but SA are notorious sledgers of the ref on and off the field.. maybe the refs are sick of it.
Anyway, we are going in circles here. Maybe if the refs treated the boks fairly we wouldn't need to whine all the time?
As I've said before, the boks probably need to learn to 'play the ref' - but in a perfect world, all refs would apply the laws exactly the same. Unfortunately we have these seemingly grey areas where it's actually a toss up what the ref will call.
And it's here where the boks ALWAYS get the short end of it.
23 Jul 08
Originally posted by CrowleyIt is circles I suppose but I just don't see a motive and haven't seen evidence to support your belief. Always is harsh on refs who start by being ppl that give up all their free time for the love of the game.. some with niggling injuries as player, turned to reffing. It;s usually the players at club level that nominate refs to the irb for international duty.
I'm not really sure about this, as I've seen most teams 'sledge' the ref.
Anyway, we are going in circles here. Maybe if the refs treated the boks fairly we wouldn't need to whine all the time?
As I've said before, the boks probably need to learn to 'play the ref' - but in a perfect world, all refs would apply the laws exactly the same. Unfortunately we ...[text shortened]... what the ref will call.
And it's here where the boks ALWAYS get the short end of it.
Why would they all give the short shrift to SA. They wouldn't and don't.
Anyway.. if you want to bag a ref try Jonathan Kaplin for not wearing glases to his 1/4 final at wc07... the worst reffing failure I've ever seen.. failed to blow a 2m forward pass from 3m away. Was he threatened or bribed.. and who paid the little waitress to pop detergent in the tea urn at the abs brekkie on finals day when SA were hosts. (she later admitted it saying she was just a SA fan).
PPl go to amazing lengths in sport and I wonder if all of it has the credibility had in the pre pro days??
24 Jul 08
Originally posted by Tirau DanIt may not be a conscious decision by refs, but it does happen. Trust me.
It is circles I suppose but I just don't see a motive and haven't seen evidence to support your belief. Always is harsh on refs who start by being ppl that give up all their free time for the love of the game.. some with niggling injuries as player, turned to reffing. It;s usually the players at club level that nominate refs to the irb for international du ...[text shortened]... ng lengths in sport and I wonder if all of it has the credibility had in the pre pro days??
You don't watch all the Springbok games like I do, so it may not be apparent to a neutral.
Jonathan is usually a pretty decent ref, but like all people he makes mistakes. Like Bryce Lawrence last Saturday when he allowed George Smith to play so much on the SA side of the ruck, we almost gave him a green and gold jersey after the game...
24 Jul 08
Originally posted by CrowleyYou are right, I avoided commenting too much because I didn't see it but I am aware of talk and no on has mentioned the ref being crook.. they usually do. Ref decisions always seem biased against truly loyal hard core fans I think that may be the cae, but since rotation I like hundred of thousands of NZers are turning away from the game.. so when I watch it now I don;t tend to pick on the refs so much except for obvious proven mistakes.. Make a mistake in the corporate world and get a written warning (most warnings last 6 months), three warnings and you are sacked. I cant see why it isn't the same in sport.. particularly reffing. Jonathan Kaplin missed forward pass potentially cost this country millions. As you know I I say that as one who doesn't just blame that incident .. I blame Graeme Henry for his stupid selections and total lack of tactical coaching. The abs are the worst I can remember since the late days of Super Sid Going and BJ Williams.. both needed to go earlier than they did.
It may not be a conscious decision by refs, but it does happen. Trust me.
You don't watch all the Springbok games like I do, so it may not be apparent to a neutral.
Jonathan is usually a pretty decent ref, but like all people he makes mistakes. Like Bryce Lawrence last Saturday when he allowed George Smith to play so much on the SA side of the ruck, we almost gave him a green and gold jersey after the game...
26 Jul 08
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Big comprehensive dor king by the wallabies over the all blacks..
34- 19 to aus.
Giteau and Barnes ruled and the aussie forwards were to much for the abs who looked tired and had their heads down with 20mins to go.
Aus did infringe a lot.. taking the scrum down time and time again to kill time late in the game and tackling the man without the ball while chasing over the line was a penalty try.. the SA ref was way out of his depth..
Late here but must check the rule tomorrow but how come the ref allowed an injured substituted player back on.. Andy Ellis was subbed with a bruised ribs.. cowan came on.. when cowan got hurt.. ellis came back on. Thats not allowed.. he had been subbed.. it wasn't a blood bin. subbed player can;t come back on.
Overall I enjoyed the game the ref let it flow, wasn't whistle happy and the better coached team won hansomely...
Wait for Graeme Henry to moan tomorrow. Go back to Wales we'll have Gatland instead... free transfer.
26 Jul 08
Originally posted by Tirau DanI thoroughly enjoyed the game. The ABs were their usual dominant dash and flash, but couldn't get the points and the Aussies took all the chances that came their way with only a quarter of the possession. But ... once again a clear penalty try against Aus wasn't awarded, and this time it was completely clear cut and right in front of the referee. Last week may have been arguable, this one wasn't. These kinds of professional fouls can swing games (as I think happened against SA) and I've been disappointed with the refereeing this season.
Big comprehensive dor king by the wallabies over the all blacks..
34- 19 to aus.
Giteau and Barnes ruled and the aussie forwards were to much for the abs who looked tired and had their heads down with 20mins to go.
Aus did infringe a lot.. taking the scrum down time and time again to kill time late in the game and tackling the man without the ball wh ...[text shortened]... Graeme Henry to moan tomorrow. Go back to Wales we'll have Gatland instead... free transfer.
27 Jul 08
Originally posted by spurs73Don't be sorry, I'm glad. I just want Henry Gone.. I've been saying they are playing the poorest rugby since the seventies when the old cavaliers defected.
😏😏😏😏😏😏
well i did say....
sorry Dan!
They are very clearly the worst coached AB side and I've been bemoaning that fact since 6 months before the WC last year.
We have some of the best talent in the world and Henry is stuffing them up.
By contrast none would say the Aussies are individually the best around but what a difference some decent coaching has made to the team in attitude, tactics and play. Brilliant..
I really enjoyed watching their display.. best for years from them.
27 Jul 08
Originally posted by buffalobillI agree the player tackled without the ball should of resulted in a penalty ,but not a penalty try.Tiquiri was there for the Wallabies and no way in the world would he have been beaten to the ball in goal.
I thoroughly enjoyed the game. The ABs were their usual dominant dash and flash, but couldn't get the points and the Aussies took all the chances that came their way with only a quarter of the possession. But ... once again a clear penalty try against Aus wasn't awarded, and this time it was completely clear cut and right in front of the referee. Last we ...[text shortened]... (as I think happened against SA) and I've been disappointed with the refereeing this season.
Yes the ref erred,but overall decisions went both ways.
As for the game there was brilliant attack and defense (at times) from both teams.
A try to both sides through poor defence ,but this was mainly due to the speed of the game under these new laws.
Cant wait for the rematch next week,as much as i want another Wallaby victory it will be hard in NZ.