Originally posted by SeitseMoreover, the Russians, as any other world power in history, can be brutal.
They are my neighbors, dude. I do know how mighty AND threatening they are... My comment was tongue in cheek, of course.
Except the part that 'they did it again' and how much I feel threatened by them.
I have lived my life in two places, one next to the U.S. and one next to Russia. The feeling is the same: Fear.
And they feel entitled to own again what they once owned.
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Originally posted by Hells CaretakerActually there was a 4 year window of opportunity available to take over, or at least destroy Russia. They didn't develop the atomic bomb until 1949. I wonder what Russia would have done had positions been reversed.
Err.... 1945 roughly around April/May.The Allied army in the west should of re-armed the Wehrmacht and battered Ivan back to Belarus..perhaps even beyond.
Originally posted by SeitseOne need only look at the number of nations in Eastern Europe who want to be part of NATO. Even Poland wants the US to put permanent missiles in their country.
Russia did it again, and will do it again. You'll see.
They should have been crushed while it was possible.
The worst is that we have it next door, damn ruskis.
Originally posted by caissad4That is correct. It is the smell of fear.
One need only look at the number of nations in Eastern Europe who want to be part of NATO. Even Poland wants the US to put permanent missiles in their country.
People here (I mean Finland + Eastern Europe) have suffered the cruelty of the Russians, and they feel/know that they will try again.
Originally posted by shavixmirWe would not have been trying to defeat Russia. We would have been trying to defeat the Soviets. Soviets and Russians are not the same thing.
How exactly would you propose crushing Russia then?
I mean, Napoleon couldn't, Hitler couldn't, do you think the US could?
Don't be silly. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Do you even know how large Russia is??? It's not Afghanistan you know.
The US can't even keep Iraq under control, never mind a country the size of Russia.
When Hitler first entered the Ukrain he was seen as a hero rescuing the people from the Soviets. It wasn't until he started his policy of enslaving and killing the local population that he had sealed his doom.
Don't forget, we were the only nuclear power at that time. With the defeat of Japan soon at hand, Russia would have had to fight a two front war, something it had avoided for the entire war.
It would have been very possible for the west to defeat the Soviets if they would have fought it out right then and there, instead of prolonging the confrontation to this very day.
Originally posted by Hells CaretakerGeorgia broke the status-quo (held for 15 years) and all previous agreements in attacking South Ossetia (the attack coincided with the Olympic opening ceremonies, no less). They completely destroyed its capital, Tskhinvali, as well as killing more than 1500 people in the first night of bombardment alone. Everything including hospitals was shelled and bombed from the air and by artillery. Civilians are still hiding in the basements in the state of panic. Thousands of South Ossetians fled to their relatives in North Ossetia, which is part of Russia. Russian TV is full of pictures of the refugees describing their sufferings. 12 Russian peacekeepers were killed and 150 wounded.
I've just been watching Russia today on Sky Digital there are some pretty brutal images of the battle.Also it appears that Russian jets have bombed a civilian block of flats by accident in a town/city called gorgi.
Majority of South Ossetians hold Russian passports and are Russian citizens - they want nothing to do with Georgia. What exactly could Russia be accused of under the circumstances? Could there be a more clear case of unprovoked agression with devasting results for the civilians than this attack?
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Originally posted by infomastWe can tell (Russian) South Ossetians the same thing I said to the hundreds of ethnic Russians I met during my years living in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, and who spoke Russian instead of Estonian, Latvian or Lithuanian, and spoke great things about the motherland, of which they felt very proud of: If you love Russia so much, go there, nobody stops you.
Georgia broke the status-quo (held for 15 years) and all previous agreements in attacking South Ossetia (the attack coincided with the Olympic opening ceremonies, no less). They completely destroyed its capital, Tskhinvali, as well as killing more than 1500 people in the first night of bombardment alone. Everything including hospitals was shelled and bombed ...[text shortened]... re clear case of unprovoked agression with devasting results for the civilians than this attack?
It gained me a couple of good fights, but they were worth, because the country they loved so much happened to kill, rape & mistreat the parents and grandparents of my Eastern European friends and colleagues.
If the butcher Medved, the puppet of Putin the Corrupt, loves South Ossetian Russians so much, why not taking them back to Russia, so the Georgians can live in peace within their territory?
Georgia may have broken the status quo, but nobody in the UN has recognized other thing than South Ossetia as part of Georgia. That is the law. That is a fact. Plus, it is foolish to blame Georgia, when we all know there's no bigger headache than living in fear next door to the arrogant military and economic power of Russia.
'nuff said.
Originally posted by EladarThis is just a wishful thinking. USSR was quite powerful after defeating Nazi Germany and wouldn't have just lied down and die. The distinction between Soviets and Russians is akin to thankful Iraqis meeting their American liberators with flowers and songs but even to a much greater extent. Not to mention that using atomic bombs against the allied country just to eliminate a future geopolitical competitor is a wanton act by itself.
We would not have been trying to defeat Russia. We would have been trying to defeat the Soviets. Soviets and Russians are not the same thing.
When Hitler first entered the Ukrain he was seen as a hero rescuing the people from the Soviets. It wasn't until he started his policy of enslaving and killing the local population that he had sealed his doom.
...[text shortened]... fought it out right then and there, instead of prolonging the confrontation to this very day.
Originally posted by Hells CaretakerUncle Joe Stalin killed more Jews and innocents than Hitler. Then he replaced Nazi domination of Eastern Europe with Soviet Communist domination of Eastern Europe for 50 years.
In the case of Stalin's Red army..yes
So don't give us that innocent , wounded look
As far as Russia being our allies in WWII, it was more of a case of ... the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Winston didn't trust the Russians and as history bore out, his fears were justified..
Originally posted by SeitseSorry, but your logic is flawed in one important aspect. South Ossetia is a place where South Ossetians live and lived for hundreds of years. It's their land and their capital. They shouldn't be forced to go anywhere, or else it would be called ethnic cleansing. As I understand it they want a recognised independence at first with an intention to become a part of Russia later.
We can tell (Russian) South Ossetians the same thing I said to the hundreds of ethnic Russians I met during my years living in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, and who spoke Russian instead of Estonian, Latvian or Lithuanian, and spoke great things about the motherland, of which they felt very proud of: [i]If you love Russia so much, go there, nobody stops you[ ...[text shortened]... living in fear next door to the arrogant military and economic power of Russia.
'nuff said.
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Originally posted by infomastHow convenient. Just like the U.S. did with Texas!
Sorry, but your logic is flawed in one important aspect. South Ossetia is a place where South Ossetians live and lived for hundreds of years. It's their land and their capital. They shouldn't be forced to go anywhere, or else it would be called ethnic cleansing. As I understand it they want a recognised independence at first with an intention to become a part of Russia later.
A plastic "independence" just to absorb it into the empire after a few months.