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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    24 Jul '09 17:28 / 1 edit
    Millions of Americans cannot afford healthcare in America, despite 30+ years of promises from the right wing that "compitition between companies would bring prices down". President Obama's efforts to bring at least a minimal amount of health care to all is very doubtful. HOM's , Insurance Companies, and Drug Companies fearing that taxpayer supported healthcare will erode there profits have launched a massive propaganda campaign designed to maintain the status quo. I believe this will be successful, especially considering the massive national debt America was blessed with at the end of the Bush administration. So for all of you uninsured folks who need medical care, the HMO's, Insurance Companies, and Drug Companies have a message for you: If you can't afford it, YOU JUST DON'T DESERVE IT!
  2. 24 Jul '09 17:37
    health care is a commodity not a right.
  3. 24 Jul '09 17:49
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    health care is a commodity not a right.
    Anything that is a necesity will be jacked up. Energy,Healthcare etc. Prices are set to what the maket will pay. If you are poor, you can't afford it. If you are middle class then you can. They want to destroy middle class america and need to find ways to keep money getting to the medical and drug companies. That is all this is about. Government would rather we all die if truth be known.
  4. 24 Jul '09 17:52
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    health care is a commodity not a right.
    Health care is a right if it's either a) constitutionally guaranteed, or b) guaranteed by legislation. So it would seem that health care is not currently a right in the US but that it might become so.
  5. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    24 Jul '09 17:54 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    health care is a commodity not a right.
    Right you are. I say "let em die!!" Anyone who makes less than $10.00 an hour, and can't afford healthcare is not a REAL American anyway!!
  6. 24 Jul '09 17:58
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    health care is a commodity not a right.
    It's a right if society wants it to be.
  7. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    24 Jul '09 18:19
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    health care is a commodity not a right.
    Any society which cannot guarantee a right to health care to its citizens is a backward, unresponsive one, not worth supporting. Why would anyone choose to live in such a society?
  8. 24 Jul '09 18:45 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by joe beyser
    Anything that is a necesity will be jacked up. Energy,Healthcare etc. Prices are set to what the maket will pay. If you are poor, you can't afford it. If you are middle class then you can. They want to destroy middle class america and need to find ways to keep money getting to the medical and drug companies. That is all this is about. Government would rather we all die if truth be known.
    Those who support universal healthcare or efforts to reduce global warming do so because they want to help those who are poor, or they want to protect the planet from potential catastrophe.

    Perhaps their proposals are misguided -- in their zeal to make things better, they may overlook negative consequences. Perhaps they worry too much about the wrong things. Perhaps they're totally deluded.

    But I seriously doubt that any of these people want to "destroy middle class america".

    I do agree that some may be motivated by an interest to bring more money to medical and drug companies, but this would only cover a small percentage of the people who support universal healthcare. Indeed, many of these companies oppose efforts that would make drugs and medical services more affordable.
  9. 24 Jul '09 19:17
    Originally posted by bill718
    Right you are. I say "let em die!!" Anyone who makes less than $10.00 an hour, and can't afford healthcare is not a REAL American anyway!!
    So that means that all necessities should be provided by the government, correct?
  10. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    24 Jul '09 19:27 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by bill718
    Right you are. I say "let em die!!" Anyone who makes less than $10.00 an hour, and can't afford healthcare is not a REAL American anyway!!
    Why do so many people on this board constantly ignore Medicaid?

    I have brought up Medicaid at least 5 times on this board and yet I continue to read, over and over again, that no healthcare is available to poor Americans.

    Here:

    http://www.cms.hhs.gov/

    http://www.cms.hhs.gov/MedicaidEligibility/01_Overview.asp

    Read it. Educate yourself. Poor people do have access to free healthcare.
  11. 24 Jul '09 19:52 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by sh76
    Why do so many people on this board constantly ignore Medicaid?

    I have brought up Medicaid at least 5 times on this board and yet I continue to read, over and over again, that no healthcare is available to poor Americans.

    Here:

    http://www.cms.hhs.gov/

    http://www.cms.hhs.gov/MedicaidEligibility/01_Overview.asp

    Read it. Educate yourself. Poor people do have access to free healthcare.
    The main problem involves people who aren't quite poor enough to qualify for Medicaid, but where their employer doesn't offer healthcare insurance and they aren't rich enough to afford to buy their own insurance. One idea would be to expand Medicaid so that it would cover more people.

    Another problem is that a lot of poor people don't like the idea that they have to become dependent on a "welfare program". I suspect there are a lot of people eligible for Medicaid who refuse to make use of it.

    Meanwhile, the extreme libertarians don't like Medicaid or any other government program, so we get into debates over whether or not society should just let certain people "die and reduce the surplus population"
  12. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    24 Jul '09 20:26 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    The main problem involves people who aren't quite poor enough to qualify for Medicaid, but where their employer doesn't offer healthcare insurance and they aren't rich enough to afford to buy their own insurance. One idea would be to expand Medicaid so that it would cover more people.

    Another problem is that a lot of poor people don't like the idea tha r or not society should just let certain people "die and reduce the surplus population"
    The first problem is definitely a problem. Yes, that's where healthcare reform is needed. I have no problem with expanding Medicaid, per se; though I'd like to know specifically where we're going to get the revenue.

    The second problem, may be an issue, but frankly, I don't feel bad for those people at all. If you won't take what the government will give you because you're too proud; then that's your problem. Not mine. I had a brother in law like that. He was eligible for Family Health Plus (in NY) but didn't want to apply because he was too proud. I wanted to wring his neck and yell at him "How dare you sacrifice the interests of your family based on your pride!?" Fortunately, he got a job where his employer pays for his insurance, and so it's no longer an issue.

    Re Par. 3: Yes, I know a guy like that. He thinks emergency rooms shouldn't treat people who weren't wearing their seatbelt in a car accident because letting them die facilitates natural selection. And, he's only partially kidding when he says that.

    Some social services are necessary in a civilized society. I agree with that concept.
  13. 24 Jul '09 20:44
    Originally posted by voltaire
    So that means that all necessities should be provided by the government, correct?
    So you tax the people so illegal immigrants can have free health care!
  14. Standard member PBE6
    Bananarama
    24 Jul '09 20:48
    Originally posted by daniel58
    So you tax the people so illegal immigrants can have free health care!
    They tried feeding them to the homeless in the early 80's, but the program was hindered due to poor administration and the "Beef-a-roni-gate" scandal.
  15. 24 Jul '09 20:51
    Originally posted by PBE6
    They tried feeding them to the homeless in the early 80's, but the program was hindered due to poor administration and the "Beef-a-roni-gate" scandal.
    And your point is...?