Health care...doubtful

http://www.healthbase.com/resources/news/latest/transformation-vacation-triple-bypass-surgery-cardiac-surgery-heart-surgery-human-resource-executive.html

The article here shows how much we get raped by our medical system. If we fix that, then we will have true medical reform. Forcing employers to carry medical insurance will just close the doors on small business. For a major procedure like this, why can't the average citezen spend half a years wages instead of 9 to 10 years wages on it? See what I mean. This medical cow is getting milked for all shes worth here and the new laws will keep the money flowing despite poor economics. Insurance adds more milkers to the system.

Originally posted by joe beyser
http://www.healthbase.com/resources/news/latest/transformation-vacation-triple-bypass-surgery-cardiac-surgery-heart-surgery-human-resource-executive.html

The article here shows how much we get raped by our medical system. If we fix that, then we will have true medical reform. Forcing employers to carry medical insurance will just close the doors on sma ...[text shortened]... e poor economics. Insurance does the same thing except they now add more milkers to the system.

I don't get if you are for it or against, if we have universal healthcare then we (will) need, universal society that's what the devil wants.

Originally posted by daniel58
I don't get if you are for it or against, if we have universal healthcare then we (will) need, universal society that's what the devil wants.

I am just saying we are getting duped again. It is all about getting money to the masters.

I've never understood why Republicans don't support health care reform. You'd think they'd jump at the opportunity to disconnect health care from employment. Providing health care for their employees seems to be a huge expense for many businesses. You'd think they'd be happy to trade that spiraling black hole to the government for a slightly higher tax.

Originally posted by rwingett
I've never understood why Republicans don't support health care reform. You'd think they'd jump at the opportunity to disconnect health care from employment. Providing health care for their employees seems to be a huge expense for many businesses. You'd think they'd be happy to trade that spiraling black hole to the government for a slightly higher tax.

Because there is a lot of money to be made at the top. Insurance companies are very powerfull and they won't be pulled away from the tit.

Originally posted by rwingett
I've never understood why Republicans don't support health care reform. You'd think they'd jump at the opportunity to disconnect health care from employment. Providing health care for their employees seems to be a huge expense for many businesses. You'd think they'd be happy to trade that spiraling black hole to the government for a slightly higher tax.

Unfortunately. the Republicans have become the "do nothing but complain" party. It dates back to when Reagan declared that "government isn't the solution, it's the problem". Reagan wasn't entirely wrong - bad government programs can have many unintended consequences or they may do little more than waste a lot of tax dollars.

But the GOP took these words too literally and acted as if government was inherently evil (although they rarely proposed any significant spending cuts). For awhile, they were able to achieve a lot of success by scaring everyone away from those "demonic liberals" while never offering any real proposals of their own. Even now, their main strategy seems to be "do nothing" and "hope Obama fails".

I remember a couple years ago when John Doolittle and Tom DeLay joined forces to prevent something from being passed -- and the joke was that the Republicans had become the party of "Do-little and Delay" -- it was a very fitting description

Originally posted by Melanerpes
Unfortunately. the Republicans have become the "do nothing but complain" party. It dates back to when Reagan declared that "government isn't the solution, it's the problem". Reagan wasn't entirely wrong - bad government programs can have many unintended consequences or they may do little more than waste a lot of tax dollars.

But the GOP took these word own. Even now, their main strategy seems to be "do nothing" and "hope Obama fails".

Both parties are onboard with this, as I understand it, it originated with the republicans. Democrat and Republican is the same thing today. Well minus an abortion here and there.

Originally posted by joe beyser
Both parties are onboard with this, as I understand it, it originated with the republicans. Democrat and Republican is the same thing today. Well minus an abortion here and there.

You think any of the GOP are going to vote for any of the heathcare reforms being offered? Maybe a handful.

Originally posted by Melanerpes
You think any of the GOP are going to vote for any of the heathcare reforms being offered? Maybe a handful.

That will be very interesting. I would say yes based on congress giving Obama what he wants when he wants it. His approval rating has dropped dramatically. This is too bad as it would have been nice to have the first black pres. to have been one of the greatest. He knew before going in that he was going to have to push for unpopular laws to appease his masters.

Originally posted by joe beyser
That will be very interesting. I would say yes based on congress giving Obama what he wants when he wants it. His approval rating has dropped dramatically. This is too bad as it would have been nice to have the first black pres. to have been one of the greatest. He knew before going in that he was going to have to push for unpopular laws to appease his masters.

If the Democrats can unite around something, they have all the votes they need. They even have the 60 Senate votes needed to prevent any GOP filibusters.

Much of Obama's falling approval is related to the economy -- if the economy rebounds, I expect Obama's numbers will rise as well. Reagan struggled back in 1982 during the last big recession, but then things turned around and it was "Morning in America" by 1984 (one of the all-time great campaign themes).

The rest of the problem is related to the healthcare frenzy -- but the same thing drove Clinton's numbers way down in 1994, but they later rebounded, Clinton won re-election and was able to retain his popularity despite his "romantic indiscretions"

If a healthcare plan can be passed, and the thing somehow works, Obama will very likely be considered one of the great presidents. If nothing passes, much will depend on how effectively he responds. But if the healthcare plan passes and turns out to be a total fiasco.....😛

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
It's a right if society wants it to be.

Society? What? Do you mean when 51% the sheep go baaaa that means the 49% of the sheep that go maaaa must be wrong? By that logic when 50% do not even bother going to the polls then guvernment should be reduced by that amount.

You're measurement of what is right or wrong is as wrong as your use of the word 'right' in your post.

Originally posted by bill718
Millions of Americans cannot afford healthcare in America, despite 30+ years of promises from the right wing that "compitition between companies would bring prices down". President Obama's efforts to bring at least a minimal amount of health care to all is very doubtful. HOM's , Insurance Companies, and Drug Companies fearing that taxpayer supported healthca ...[text shortened]... ug Companies have a message for you: If you can't afford it, YOU JUST DON'T DESERVE IT!😏

The US system is about a million miles way from being free market, get rid of the regulation then you will see true competition.

Originally posted by daniel58
So you tax the people so illegal immigrants can have free health care!

Well you tax people to pay for services that are more effectively provided collectively and you are stupid when you don't. Americans pay a lot for their health care (directly reflected in costs of labour for American industry) and get poor value from it. Why are inclusive services a bad thing? The administration of health payments is a monstrosity that has little productive purpose and if anything, it is a system designed to exclude people and ration care, not a system to give people fair value for what they pay. Face the facts - health in the States is actually not the best in the world by a long way and not getting better. You have great services of course - but not accessible ones. A great advert for getting the health services you pay for is Michael Jackson - sure he got everything he paid for and anything he wanted to pay for and it was not good.

Originally posted by finnegan
Well you tax people to pay for services that are more effectively provided collectively and you are stupid when you don't. Americans pay a lot for their health care (directly reflected in costs of labour for American industry) and get poor value from it. Why are inclusive services a bad thing? The administration of health payments is a monstrosity that has ...[text shortened]... son - sure he got everything he paid for and anything he wanted to pay for and it was not good.

finnegan, you have it back to front universal health care is 'rationed' health care.