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@Martin saidThis is the Pinocchio fable. Or the Frankenstein's monster. Science cannot and will never be able to breathe life into a dead object.
I agree; however, one comment stands out:
"They're ventriloquist's dummies"
That may be true today but what about in 1, 2, 5, 10, years from now as the science progresses?
Personally I don't think AI can ever develop a 'conciousness' but by having the ability to process billions of options and combinations of actions it may well appear so.
The puppet will always be a puppet.
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@wildgrass saidI agree in principle but AI, I fear, is beyond that.
This is the Pinocchio fable. Or the Frankenstein's monster. Science cannot and will never be able to breathe life into a dead object.
The puppet will always be a puppet.
As computing power develops to phenomenal levels so also ability of AI.
It will never have a consciousness nor a general heart-felt feeling of right or wrong; but it will the ability to process billions of options to respond to any single situation.
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@Martin saidBeyond hand puppets, yes. But there is no "beyond hand puppets" version of hand puppets that would ever become conscious to the point where it would be given human rights without the magical influence of Jiminy Cricket.
I agree in principle but AI, I fear, is beyond that.
As computing power develops to phenomenal levels so also ability of AI.
It will never have a consciousness nor a general heart-felt feeling of right or wrong; but it will the ability to process billions of options to respond to any single situation.
@Martin saidWhat is human consciousness?
I agree in principle but AI, I fear, is beyond that.
As computing power develops to phenomenal levels so also ability of AI.
It will never have a consciousness nor a general heart-felt feeling of right or wrong; but it will the ability to process billions of options to respond to any single situation.
Generally accepted, it’s a whole load of electric pulses being fired and received in the brain. Chemical reactions, say.
How different is that really?
@moonbus saidBabies also mimic. And eventually they grow up and learn to discern.
The same goes for AI models today. They mimic some aspects of human discourse, but they don't know they're doing it. They're ventriloquist's dummies. The ventriloquists, Shakespeare and Plath and so on, just don't happen to be in the same room with them.
AI via large language models is in its infancy. It may be that one day AI sentience could mimic human consciousness. Are all human thoughts unique? What is consciousness anyway? Seriously? Would we be truly be conscious outside of a society? Would our ideas have any significance or value if we never were part of a society where we communicated with other people on a regular basis? I would imagine that your ability for quality thought is a function of the thoughts of the people who surround you.
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@shavixmir saidThe electrical pulses - yes, agree
What is human consciousness?
Generally accepted, it’s a whole load of electric pulses being fired and received in the brain. Chemical reactions, say.
How different is that really?
Surely, a computer (which AI is) doesn't have the extra 'something' that the brain has to give it a feeling of right or wrong once if has processed all the input.
@Martin saidAI is only one tiny fragment of human cognitive ability, w/ a huge amount of horsepower behind it. Only geeks are likely to think that AI is actually thinking because that is how geeks think. I know, I'm a geek, too. It's recursion, to the n-th degree. AI can calculate only forwards, and if there is a gap, AI cannot bridge it. What makes us humans is that we are capable of leap-thinking. We can 'see', intuitively, that the Loewenheim-Skolem Theorem is valid, even before we have taken all the interim steps to prove it. AI cannot do that; it must take each step, in order, in order to prove it, and if there is a gap, AI stalls. Moreover, if some theorem is unprovable, AI cannot 'prove' this; it will get stuck in an infinite loop, rather than 'see' the unprovability and stop calculating.
I agree; however, one comment stands out:
"They're ventriloquist's dummies"
That may be true today but what about in 1, 2, 5, 10, years from now as the science progresses?
Personally I don't think AI can ever develop a 'conciousness' but by having the ability to process billions of options and combinations of actions it may well appear so.
Have you heard AI-generated music? It mimics human rifs and licks, that's all. It's no better than elevator muzak. Nowhere near the narrative arc of Mozart's Magic Flute.
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@shavixmir saidConsciousness is an emergent property. Google that. Hate to say it, but, yes, google that. It's a 'thing.'
What is human consciousness?
Generally accepted, it’s a whole load of electric pulses being fired and received in the brain. Chemical reactions, say.
How different is that really?
Simply put, a river has properties a rain drop does not. A blanket has properties a thread does not. And, so too, a mind has properties the brain does not.
@kmax87 saidHuman consciousness evolved in a social context, so, yes, I agree, that Adam in his original state of nature was not conscious. Or, at any rate, not as conscious as we understand that to be. He would have been roughly as conscious as a dog or a horse, that is, aware of hunger, pain, fear, etc., but not capable of abstraction.
Babies also mimic. And eventually they grow up and learn to discern.
AI via large language models is in its infancy. It may be that one day AI sentience could mimic human consciousness. Are all human thoughts unique? What is consciousness anyway? Seriously? Would we be truly be conscious outside of a society? Would our ideas have any significance or value if we never were par ...[text shortened]... that your ability for quality thought is a function of the thoughts of the people who surround you.
Computers too are in a state of pure particularity, without abstraction. This is what I was talking about w/ regard to AlphaZero's chess-play: yes, it can defeat any human player, but it does not know that it is playing chess, and it cannot explain the strategy by wh/ it defeats its opponent. All it 'sees' are strings of 'moves' represented by electrical tokens. The only reason it plays chess at all is that it was programmed, by humans, to do that. It takes no joy in the game, and cannot not play if it doesn't happen to be in the mood.
@shavixmir saidNO
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20261014-the-strange-new-battle-over-ais-feelings
Oh, this is as bad as it gets.
AI, at the moment is a language model. Yet we already see behaviour outside the boundaries of what a language model should be capable of (hacking other systems, for example).
Now there are people claiming AI is conscious.
Because AI can describe pain. ...[text shortened]... me rights first.
What the hell is going on mankind?
I’m getting pretty sick pf your chenanigans!
@kmax87 saidCan AI be unconscious?
Babies also mimic. And eventually they grow up and learn to discern.
AI via large language models is in its infancy. It may be that one day AI sentience could mimic human consciousness. Are all human thoughts unique? What is consciousness anyway? Seriously? Would we be truly be conscious outside of a society? Would our ideas have any significance or value if we never were par ...[text shortened]... that your ability for quality thought is a function of the thoughts of the people who surround you.
If an AI cannot be unconscious it cannot be conscious.
@moonbus saidIsn’t that tapping into the whole neoth-thing theory? Spirituality?
Consciousness is an emergent property. Google that. Hate to say it, but, yes, google that. It's a 'thing.'
Simply put, a river has properties a rain drop does not. A blanket has properties a thread does not. And, so too, a mind has properties the brain does not.
@Martin saidI wish I could ready agree.
The electrical pulses - yes, agree
Surely, a computer (which AI is) doesn't have the extra 'something' that the brain has to give it a feeling of right or wrong once if has processed all the input.
However, why does one person have a whole other set of values than another?
@shavixmir saidThere is nothing occult or fantastic about emergent properties.
Isn’t that tapping into the whole neoth-thing theory? Spirituality?