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Originally posted by VanquishWhere do you live?
About 12 miles from where I live is a great town that is being rapidly destroyed by crime and drug gangs like the "Bloods".A town that only a few years ago,you could walk the streets anytime of day and not be robbed or murdered.last month for example,there was 5 murders.The gangs are causing normal people to move out,business to close,job loss and more.Vigi nipers and more,and they are NOT following the "laws"as defined under international law.
Don't you know that it's your fault that these people are doing this to that town because you're not harassing GWB and demanding social programs for them? Just ask Seitse. Man, if I were a poor person of color, I'd get a job *cough* I mean I'd rob, pillage and vandalize if the government wasn't giving me enough stuff.
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Originally posted by SeitseWhat was there to reply to? You compliment me, then you insult me, then you say there's no conspiracy, then you say it's all because of the government (which sounds like conspiracy to me). What is there for me to respond to? I don't want to waste time with "I'm right" "you're wrong" "I'm right" "you're wrong" etc forever.
You didn't reply my last post, ATY.
😉
Originally posted by AThousandYoungNo, dude, I am not looking for a "win", because there is no such thing in a debate if it is for mutual enrichment and knowledge.
What was there to reply to? You compliment me, then you insult me, then you say there's no conspiracy, then you say it's all because of the government (which sounds like conspiracy to me). What is there for me to respond to? I don't want to waste time with "I'm right" "you're wrong" "I'm right" "you're wrong" etc forever.
I am looking for us to debate about the structural problems:
- Why are there thugs?
- What is wrong with the economy?
- What is wrong with society?
- Where are the values of family and hard work?
- etc.
I think THERE is where we can find enlightenment.
🙂
Originally posted by surtismLuckily Gordon Brown has found the answer...ban knives.
This is a serious question, what is happening in the streets of the UK? The youth are running riot, knife and gun crime is on the increase, rape and sexual assaults abound and the hands of the police are tied, if they try to crack down on crime then they get attacked by gangs as in Manchester last week. If they do manage to arrest somebody then they cannot ...[text shortened]... t up with this?
Just some gentle dinner debate from tonight, any thoughts????
Stay safe!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2075886/Gordon-Brown-prosecute-teens-with-knives.html
The Prime Minister told MPs that every parent would want their teenage sons and daughters "not only to be safe but feel safe in our neighbourhoods".
He said: "That's why knives are unacceptable and we've got to do everything in our power to deter them."
"We need to send out a signal to those who carry knives for no good reason, that they can expect the police service to its best to get them before a court."
Let's face it -- this is what your parent's do, right? If you hurt your brother by hitting him with a plastic dinosaur -- the plastic dinosaur gets taken away! It's that simple!
Socialism is like your Mom. It will take care of you, but you must give up your freedom.
Originally posted by SeitseWhy are there thugs?
No, dude, I am not looking for a "win", because there is no such thing in a debate if it is for mutual enrichment and knowledge.
I am looking for us to debate about the structural problems:
- Why are there thugs?
- What is wrong with the economy?
- What is wrong with society?
- Where are the values of family and hard work?
- etc.
I think THERE is where we can find enlightenment.
🙂
That's a question that needs refinement, because ultimately the answer is human nature. Do you want to be more specific? For example, a more specific question might be "why are there a lot of thugs in Los Angeles?"
What is wrong with the economy?
What do you mean? Specifics, please.
What is wrong with society?
Huh?
Where are the values of family and hard work?
In the people that have those values. Your questions are vague and because of this have little meaning.
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Originally posted by AThousandYoung[/b] Don't you think the economy primes the achievement of material success over anything else and at any cost? The media echoes this, e.g. bling bling gangsta rap fools glorifying dazzle over substance.
[b]Why are there thugs?
That's a question that needs refinement, because ultimately the answer is human nature. Do you want to be more specific? For example, a more specific question might be "why are there a lot of thugs in Los Angeles?"
What is wrong with the economy?
What do you mean? Specifics, please.
What is wrong with ...[text shortened]... le that have those values. Your questions are vague and because of this have little meaning.
At the same time, the economic system condemns many to the low ranks, creating an army of youngsters with no hopes while making a small bunch richer and richer. This creates angst (see first paragraph) and resentment.
Moreover, family values are cracked (see the 2 paragraphs above).
Last, but not least, the government is controlled by the small elite swimming in money, which is stained with blood, and corrupts itself to serve the elite instead of the people at large.
All of the above throws more thugs to the streets.
The problem is far more complex, I agree, but what do you think of the above as a start?
You see, I don't think thugs pop like champignons, out of nothing. I believe they are a product of the status quo.
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Originally posted by SeitseDon't you think the economy primes the achievement of material success over anything else and at any cost?
Don't you think the economy primes the achievement of material success over anything else and at any cost? The media echoes this, e.g. bling bling gangsta rap fools glorifying dazzle over substance.
At the same time, the economic system condemns many to the low ranks, creating an army of youngsters with no hopes while making a small bunch richer and r nk thugs pop like champignons, out of nothing. I believe they are a product of the status quo.[/b]
"The economy" is simply people working and trading with one another. I don't understand what you mean by "the economy" priming the achievement etc...people do what they do. Their actions do not become a new person when you combine them all together who then controls individuals. Now, people value material success, and with good reason. "Material success" is important. "Material success" means "I get to eat all the food I want" and "I can go to the doctor and get medicine" and "I have a roof over my head". In fact, you seem to be implying thuggishness is caused by the frustrated desire for material success which you then imply non-thugs should provide to the thugs, so I'm not sure why you're so critical of it.
At the same time, the economic system condemns many to the low ranks,
No, the cause of people being "condemned to the low ranks" is the fact that people need material success (food, housing, etc), yet many people make babies whether or not they can give material success to those babies, and whether or not those babies are likely to be able to get it for themselves. Any organism will overbreed and natural selection will "condemn some to the low ranks". It's caused by overbreeding.
Do you really think your typical "person of poverty" has less wealth than a typical stone age hunter-gatherer? "The economic system" is a huge part of the reason why the "poor" are not stone age hunter-gatherers.
"Family values are cracked"? WTF does that mean?
Last, but not least, the government is controlled by the small elite swimming in money, which is stained with blood, and corrupts itself to serve the elite instead of the people at large.
Nice conspiracy theory. What happened to thuggishness not being caused by conspiracies?
You see, I don't think thugs pop like champignons, out of nothing.
Then why are there ALWAYS thugs? And there are...there's no way to stop all humans from ever expressing thuggish tendencies.
Originally posted by AThousandYoungAn economic system, depending how it is structured, determines certain outcomes. It is not the same to pursue the daily bread in a socialdemocratic system than in a capitalist one, than in a communist one, than in a theocracy, than in etc. etc.
[b]Don't you think the economy primes the achievement of material success over anything else and at any cost?
"The economy" is simply people working and trading with one another. I don't understand what you mean by "the economy" priming the achievement etc...people do what they do. Their actions do not become a new person when you combine th ...[text shortened]... ay to stop all humans from ever expressing thuggish tendencies.[/b]
How the country is regulated makes a difference.
People overbreeding is also a matter of th system, based on education, promoted values, and the example given by leaders.
Do you think the values promoted by legislation and leaders in Sweden, for example, are the same as in the U.S. or Colombia?
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Originally posted by SeitseAn economic system, depending how it is structured, determines certain outcomes.
An economic system, depending how it is structured, determines certain outcomes. It is not the same to pursue the daily bread in a socialdemocratic system than in a capitalist one, than in a communist one, than in a theocracy, than in etc. etc.
How the country is regulated makes a difference.
People overbreeding is also a matter of th system, based on e ...[text shortened]... oted by legislation and leaders in Sweden, for example, are the same as in the U.S. or Colombia?
I suppose it heavily influences certain outcomes, yes. For example, capitalism encourages wealth generation and inspired hard work.
People overbreeding is also a matter of th system, based on education, promoted values, and the example given by leaders
I wouldn't be surprised if the amount of breeding does correlate with the education people receive. If people are told that it makes God happy when you have babies, they'll have more babies. "Promoted values" and "the example given by leaders" may influence some people.
However, despite all this, the fact that many people can be manipulated by government agents does not mean they should be. I hope you're not telling me you think politicians should be able to control my childrens' education (if I have any) and that they should hire actors to "promote values" (their values, maybe not mine).
Do you think the values promoted by legislation and leaders in Sweden, for example, are the same as in the U.S. or Colombia?
I have no idea. How are Swedish politicians trying to manipulate their citizens? I know GWB talks about "faith based initiatives" and "family values". I do not want GWB playing head games with me and the people in my community in order to give a boost to churches.
I am amazed you have such faith in politicians.
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Originally posted by SeitseThe very first value I see promoted by the Swedes is in their name: The Kingdom of Sweden. So not only are we to be manipulated by those who govern, but according to the stated values of that country, this person should not even be someone Swedish citizens get to help choose. It's to be a hereditary thug-ruler. Of course, that's not what they actually practice - but we're discussing the values promoted by government agents.
An economic system, depending how it is structured, determines certain outcomes. It is not the same to pursue the daily bread in a socialdemocratic system than in a capitalist one, than in a communist one, than in a theocracy, than in etc. etc.
How the country is regulated makes a difference.
People overbreeding is also a matter of th system, based on e ...[text shortened]... oted by legislation and leaders in Sweden, for example, are the same as in the U.S. or Colombia?
As a northern country, they have a low population density, which leads me to suspect that any lack of population-density problems has little to do with the government.
Alternatively it suggests that immigration is tightly controlled.
EDIT - Russia population density is even lower, and Canada's is lower than that.
Swedent managed to become strong in the late 20th century in part by collaborating with Hitler. Thus, like the US, which was protected by vast oceans, their industrial base was not smashed in WWII. The Marshall Plan also helped them.
Sweden's recent trend against collectivazation and towards capitalism is probably a good idea.
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This is interesting:
Sweden has always provided solid support for free trade (except agriculture), free immigration, and strong property rights. Sweden was richer than almost all countries until, after World War II, Sweden adopted very high taxation and government consumption. The model eventually led to slow growth, Sweden fell some 10 places in GDP per capita rankings, and Swedish households became relatively poor compared to households in less-taxed similar countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden
Endnote 49 - EU versus USA, Fredrik Bergström & Robert Gidehag
EDIT - Some 4.5 million residents are working
That's 50% unemployment!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden
Endnote #52 - Economic survey of Sweden 2007
The wiki article also says deregulation, globalization, and technology sector growth have been key productivity drivers...
According to footnote 50, Deregulation-induced competition helped Sweden to halt economic decline and restore strong growth rates in the 2000s.
Footnote 50 - Sweden's balancing lessons for Europe, McKinsey IMG institute 2006.
More wikiage:
Sweden's industry is overwhelmingly in private control; unlike some other industrialized Western countries, such as Austria and Italy, publicly owned enterprises were always of minor importance.
From footnote 52 again:
According to OECD's Economic Survey of Sweden 2007, average inflation in Sweden has been one of the lowest among European countries since the mid-1990s, largely because of deregulation and quick utilization of globalization.
Etc.
Why do you think any success of the Kingdom of Sweden is caused by politicians manipulating Swedes?