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@kevcvs57 saidWhat did Biggs do that deserves 17 years?
Criminals going to jail is always good surely
I heard that one of the guys with him pepper sprayed a cop - got 15 years in jail. That seems very excessive.
If I heard that an Antifa rioter got 15 years for pepper spraying a cop and the usual rigmarole of offenses that may accomapny being a rioter, I would still think that was absurd. People who pepper spray cops should go to jail.
Six months? Sure. 1 year? Maybe. Two years? Maybe, also, two years. Maybe even three years if it was a particularly nasty case....
Fifteen years... For rioting-based charges, nothing with killing-maiming-disfiguring-hospitalizing police or protesters? Just bizarre.
As it was pointed out elsewhere:
https://twitter.com/martyrmade/status/1698110705436950541
A man who shot a dad 11 times while he was walking his children to school in DC pled down to voluntary manslaughter and got 13 years.
This guy got longer and the most we can say about him was he used pepper spray... Joe Biggs, we cannot even say that.
This is what they do in places like China and Russia.
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@soothfast said"I hope my political opponets are r*ped...
May they drop the soap every single day of those 17 years...
...And twice on Sundays.
... Twice on Sundays."
OK.
Odd, though, because antifa alley cat normally is an opponent of neoliberalism.
What's the matter? Did you sprout a few gray hairs and just repurpose radical left symbolism to represent room temperate hot takes in support of the USA, who funds Israel's apartheid?
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@philokalia saidBiggs wasn't just convicted for rioting based offenses, but for seditious conspiracy i.e. conspiring to overthrow the government. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2384
What did Biggs do that deserves 17 years?
I heard that one of the guys with him pepper sprayed a cop - got 15 years in jail. That seems very excessive.
If I heard that an Antifa rioter got 15 years for pepper spraying a cop and the usual rigmarole of offenses that may accomapny being a rioter, I would still think that was absurd. People who pepper spray cops should ...[text shortened]... ray... Joe Biggs, we cannot even say that.
This is what they do in places like China and Russia.
That'll get you put up against a wall in many countries.
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@no1marauder saidLike Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, etc...
Biggs wasn't just convicted for rioting based offenses, but for seditious conspiracy i.e. conspiring to overthrow the government. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2384
That'll get you put up against a wall in many countries.
In democratic countries, though, I have not heard of this as a norm.
In Korea, it used to be possible to be imprisoned for leading protests and the things that you said in private conversations that indicated your protests might wish to change society dynamically...
An end was put to that in the late 1990s. It's still not perfect, but it looks like Korea is surpassing the master now, lol...
Clown courts - even funnier than what you get in places like Saudi Arabia and various Islamic Republics, I think, because they have spelled it out in their own documents that you do not have much in terms of freedom.
@no1marauder saidI don't know how you can say stuff like this with a straight face.
Biggs wasn't just convicted for rioting based offenses, but for seditious conspiracy i.e. conspiring to overthrow the government. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2384
That'll get you put up against a wall in many countries.
Please play out a likely scenario of the worlds most powerful goobermint being overthrown by a bunch of meanderers who had an event planned elsewhere that evening? The gloaters here make me feel physically ill, but hey, that's their goal. You keep great company with Mr anal incest.
@philokalia saidNo in China they roll over people like this with tanks
What did Biggs do that deserves 17 years?
I heard that one of the guys with him pepper sprayed a cop - got 15 years in jail. That seems very excessive.
If I heard that an Antifa rioter got 15 years for pepper spraying a cop and the usual rigmarole of offenses that may accomapny being a rioter, I would still think that was absurd. People who pepper spray cops should ...[text shortened]... ray... Joe Biggs, we cannot even say that.
This is what they do in places like China and Russia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre
EDIT Turns out Tank Man did not get run over so I guess I'm wrong
@athousandyoung saidI found it interesting speaking with the Chinese couple who run a local cafe, when I told her about 'tank man', an event she claimed no knowledge of, she refused to search it on her ph in case it some how got back to the authorities what she had been viewing.
No in China they roll over people like this with tanks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre
I wonder if other expat Chinese in other countries are as wary of being spied on.
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@wajoma saidLooking up Tank Man myself I see that I was wrong and the Chinese did NOT run over people with tanks.
I found it interesting speaking with the Chinese couple who run a local cafe, when I told her about 'tank man', an event she claimed no knowledge of, she refused to search it on her ph in case it some how got back to the authorities what she had been viewing.
I wonder if other expat Chinese in other countries are as wary of being spied on.
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@philokalia saidIf you had bothered to read the statute (which you clearly did not), you'd know it doesn't cover "peaceful protests" or "private conversations that indicated your protests might wish to change society dynamically" but instead:
Like Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, etc...
In democratic countries, though, I have not heard of this as a norm.
In Korea, it used to be possible to be imprisoned for leading protests and the things that you said in private conversations that indicated your protests might wish to change society dynamically...
An end was put to that in the late 1990s. It's still no ...[text shortened]... cause they have spelled it out in their own documents that you do not have much in terms of freedom.
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2384
@wajoma saidYou must have forgot that I addressed these points fully in May:
I don't know how you can say stuff like this with a straight face.
Please play out a likely scenario of the worlds most powerful goobermint being overthrown by a bunch of meanderers who had an event planned elsewhere that evening? The gloaters here make me feel physically ill, but hey, that's their goal. You keep great company with Mr anal incest.
"What the insurrectionists were trying to do is to stop the certification of the Presidential election. If they had succeeded in breaking into the House and Senate chambers when the Representatives and Senators were still there they could have effectively held the members hostage until they accepted various slates of "delegates" from certain States that would vote for Trump rather than for the actual winner of their States Joe Biden. Is that far fetched? Given that even after the riot:
"However, 121 House Republicans, or 57 percent of the House Republican caucus, chose to vote in favor of the baseless belief that Arizona’s Electoral College votes were somehow compromised. And 138 House Republicans voted in favor of challenging Pennsylvania’s results."
https://www.vox.com/2021/1/7/22218225/house-republicans-senate-electoral-college-votes-storm-capitol-election-stop-the-steal-trump-biden
I don't think so.
So there would be no need for the insurrectionists themselves to do the things you have thought up; the government would continue just with Trump remaining President after his term was supposed to expire about two weeks later. There's a reason his supporters were called to Washington on that specific day.
Mobs, of course, have overthrown governments in the past. In 2014, armed ultranationalists took control of government buildings in Kyiv to nullify an agreement between the President and the three largest opposition parties which called for reforms and early elections because they wanted the President's immediate removal. This succeeded; the President and his followers in Parliament fled and then he was illegally removed.
One can go further back in history and find Mussolini's march on Rome as another example where mobs forced a change in government.
Nor is possibility of success a factor in deciding whether someone has attempted to overthrow or hinder the execution of any law in the US; John Brown's plan to have about a dozen men steal some arms from a US armory and then arm slaves to end slavery was hardly likely to work but that didn't prevent him from being hanged for trying to implement it."
https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/debates/seditious-conspiracy-conviction.196939/page-3
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@philokalia saidCops shoot innocent people all the time and keep their jobs and fat pensions.
What did Biggs do that deserves 17 years?
I heard that one of the guys with him pepper sprayed a cop - got 15 years in jail. That seems very excessive.
If I heard that an Antifa rioter got 15 years for pepper spraying a cop and the usual rigmarole of offenses that may accomapny being a rioter, I would still think that was absurd. People who pepper spray cops should ...[text shortened]... ray... Joe Biggs, we cannot even say that.
This is what they do in places like China and Russia.
Do you have a point?
Are you claiming that they were convicted of property damage and common assault. If they were ordinary citizens who pepper sprayed a cop they wouldn’t live long enough to face a judge. It would be a righteous shooting.
They are treasonous fascist scum and they are where they belong.
@no1marauder saidYes you did post this before and they were ridiculous comparisons then, if the wildest scenario you can dream up, of which you're reluctant to articulate your dream feelings, had played out, the very worst would have been an imperceptible blip in the running of the machine. Nothing accepted by hostages under threat of force would last 5 minutes beyond when the meanderers got hungry and went out for pizza.
You must have forgot that I addressed these points fully in May:
"What the insurrectionists were trying to do is to stop the certification of the Presidential election. If they had succeeded in breaking into the House and Senate chambers when the Representatives and Senators were still there they could have effectively held the members hostage until they accepted vario ...[text shortened]... ement it."
https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/debates/seditious-conspiracy-conviction.196939/page-3
The worlds most powerful goobermint has teams whose existence consists of dreaming up scenarios and threats to the worlds most powerful goobermint running games and establishing protocols to keep the machine running, a rag tag bunch of selfie takers does not even rate compared to the juicy stuff like actual bomb threats and missile strikes. If there had been actual armed 'insurrectionists' marching towards the state worshippers holiest of holy there would have been a response. Think about your Co. running a fire drill multiply that by a thousand.
@wajoma saidYou seem to have forgotten that the head of that government was the one who would benefit from the scenario I outlined. A scenario he was anxious to see happen as shown by his reluctance to summon any law enforcement reinforcements to the scene or even to make a public statement telling the rioters to leave.
Yes you did post this before and they were ridiculous comparisons then, if the wildest scenario you can dream up, of which you're reluctant to articulate your dream feelings, had played out, the very worst would have been an imperceptible blip in the running of the machine. Nothing accepted by hostages under threat of force would last 5 minutes beyond when the meanderers got ...[text shortened]... would have been a response. Think about your Co. running a fire drill multiply that by a thousand.
From the mouth of your buddy Joe Biggs:
"When Jones asked him if he believed Trump would pardon him, Biggs replied: "Oh, I know he'll pardon us. I believe that with all my heart."
He added: "He should ... we went there like he asked."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/proud-boy-joe-biggs-gripes-about-horrible-prison-grub-certain-trump-will-pardon-him/ar-AA1gbITB