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  1. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    11 Jun '18 21:54
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    It seems most of the people in the Crimea wanted to join Russia. Few in Iraq and Afghanistan were pinning for a US invasion and occupation. No government in either of those countries could long exist without the approval of the US.
    Most of the people in Northern Ireland want to be British but you reject their desire for self determination. You also have insisted US States are committed to a Perpetual Union no matter what the people there want i.e. no unilateral secession. Why is Ukraine different?
  2. Subscriberno1marauder
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    11 Jun '18 21:57
    Originally posted by @athousandyoung
    Most of the people in Northern Ireland want to be British but you reject their desire for self determination. You also have insisted US States are committed to a Perpetual Union no matter what the people there want i.e. no unilateral secession. Why is Ukraine different?
    I discussed the Ukraine-Crimea issue at the time; I'll dig up the thread.

    The ACLEI was created by ethnic cleansing and is a continuing Crime against Humanity; it has no legitimate existence.

    The US States accepted the concept of "Perpetual Union" when they joined. If they wish to alter the compact, they can by amendment.
  3. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    11 Jun '18 21:58
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    Libya's been pretty much a war zone ever since the intervention. It seems quite doubtful it would have been so absent foreign meddling.
    IDK Gadaffi’s sub Saharan mercenaries were being extremely brutal before anyone outside the continent got involved.
  4. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    11 Jun '18 21:593 edits
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    I discussed the Ukraine-Crimea issue at the time; I'll dig up the thread.

    The ACLEI was created by ethnic cleansing and is a continuing Crime against Humanity; it has no legitimate existence.

    The US States accepted the concept of "Perpetual Union" when they joined. If they wish to alter the compact, they can by amendment.
    The Russians ethnically cleansed the Tatars from Ukraine.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars

    Northern Ireland a “continuing Crime against Humanity?!” How?!
  5. Subscriberno1marauder
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    11 Jun '18 22:23
    Originally posted by @athousandyoung
    The Russians ethnically cleansed the Tatars from Ukraine.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars

    Northern Ireland a “continuing Crime against Humanity?!” How?!
    Here's the Ukraine thread: https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/debates/ukraine-crisis.158024

    On page 13, I discuss the illegal nature under the Ukrainian Constitution of the President's ouster and conclude:

    The ouster failed to follow any of the requirements given in the Ukraine Constitution and is thus completely illegal under Ukrainian law. While secession is also not allowed under the Ukrainian Constitution, Crimean authorities could argue that the ouster of an elected government by unconstitutional means effectively revokes the Constitution and frees them of adherence to its provisions under standard "compact" theory.
  6. Subscriberno1marauder
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    11 Jun '18 22:29
    Originally posted by @athousandyoung
    The Russians ethnically cleansed the Tatars from Ukraine.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars

    Northern Ireland a “continuing Crime against Humanity?!” How?!
    The ACLEI is somewhat off-topic, but there remains State accepted persecution of the Irish within its borders particularly in economic matters. In addition, the region has not been allowed to have promised local governments with any power and has been ruled directly from London for much of the post-surrender period.
  7. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    11 Jun '18 23:39
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    Here's the Ukraine thread: https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/debates/ukraine-crisis.158024

    On page 13, I discuss the illegal nature under the Ukrainian Constitution of the President's ouster and conclude:

    The ouster failed to follow any of the requirements given in the Ukraine Constitution and is thus completely illegal under Ukrainian law. While s ...[text shortened]... the Constitution and frees them of adherence to its provisions under standard "compact" theory.
    Northern Ireland could just as well argue that the TITS illegally rebelled against the elected British Parliament during the Easter Rising etc.
  8. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    11 Jun '18 23:44
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_and_discrimination_in_Ukraine#Discrimination_against_Tatars

    In Crimea[nb 1], native Tatars feel discriminated due to lack of lands.[32] Conflicts between Tatars and their Slavic neighbors in recent years has led to massed fist fights, vandalizing graveyards[7] and even murders. The Ukrainian government is slow in acknowledging the tensions.[12] Crimean Tatars asserted that discrimination by mainly ethnic Russian officials in Crimea deprived them of employment in local administrations and that propaganda campaigns, particularly by Russian Cossacks, promoted hostility against them among other inhabitants of Crimea.[28] More than 250,000 Crimean Tatars have returned to their homeland following Ukrainian independence, shifting the ethnic composition of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea. The return of Tatars, who belong to a different ethnicity, speak a separate language, and are predominantly Muslim, has resulted in increased ethnic and religious tensions in the Crimea and contributed to an increase in bias-motivated attacks against Crimean Tatars and their property.[20] The discrimination against Tatars escalated sharply following the annexation of Crimea by Russia in 2014.
  9. Standard membershavixmir
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    12 Jun '18 04:25
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    I was reluctant to mention Krugman since he's so blatantly partisan but I read the stat in his article so I felt like I should give credit.

    I admit I'm undecided on the issue though it seems highly unlikely the group will decide to do so.
    Russia got the boot because they invaded the Crimea.
    Not because their economy’s faecal.
  10. Standard membershavixmir
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    12 Jun '18 04:27
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    The ACLEI is somewhat off-topic, but there remains State accepted persecution of the Irish within its borders particularly in economic matters. In addition, the region has not been allowed to have promised local governments with any power and has been ruled directly from London for much of the post-surrender period.
    ACLEI?
    Stop it. Please.

    You mean Northern Ireland, don’t you?
  11. Germany
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    12 Jun '18 06:29
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    Libya's been pretty much a war zone ever since the intervention. It seems quite doubtful it would have been so absent foreign meddling.
    Why does that seem doubtful to you?
  12. Zugzwang
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    12 Jun '18 06:51
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    ACLEI?
    Stop it. Please.

    You mean Northern Ireland, don’t you?
    "And where the fk is the ACLEI? How many times have people to tell you [No1Marauder]
    that your personal invention of acronyms is just strange and weird behaviour?"
    --Finnegan (to No1Marauder)
  13. Zugzwang
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    12 Jun '18 07:03
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    Then at least Trump would have somebody to talk to.

    Seriously, though their economy's GDP is smaller than all of the nations in the group including Canada, which has one-quarter its population. As Paul Krugman points out, Spain's GDP is about the same as Russia's.

    So does it rate as a "major industrialized country" warranting G-7 admission? Or are ...[text shortened]... anization meant to facilitate macroeconomic coordination between advanced economies?

    Discuss.
    "Seriously, though their economy's GDP is smaller than all of the nations in the group
    including Canada, which has one-quarter its population. As Paul Krugman points out,
    Spain's GDP is about the same as Russia's."
    --No1Marauder

    No1Marauder cherry-picks *nominal* GDP over GDP (PPP = purchasing power parity),
    resulting in another misleading claim.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

    Even in nominal GDP, Russia's slightly higher than Spain on all three lists.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)

    "GDP comparisons using PPP are arguably more useful than those using nominal GDP...
    when assessing a nation's domestic market because PPP takes into account the relative
    cost of local goods, services and inflation rates of the country, rather than using international
    market exchange rates which may distort the real differences in per capita income."

    In GDP (PPP), Russia's much higher than Spain on all three lists.

    China (2nd in nominal GDP and 1st in GDP (PPP) among nations) is the invisible elephant in the room.
  14. Zugzwang
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    12 Jun '18 07:061 edit
    Russia has been promoting SCO as an alternative (or rival) to the G7.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Cooperation_Organisation

    Originally consisting of China, Russia, and four Central Asian nations (former Soviet republics),
    SCO now includes India and Pakistan. Reportedly, Iran's eager to join it.

    "It is the largest regional organisation in the world in terms of geographical coverage and
    population, covering three-fifths of the Eurasian continent and nearly half of the human
    population, and is one of the world's most powerful and influential organisations."

    I regard SCO as an effort by China and Russia to assert their independence of the G7
    and the (unratified) TPP, which would be dominated by the USA and Japan.
  15. Subscriberno1marauder
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    12 Jun '18 07:12
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    "Seriously, though their economy's GDP is smaller than all of the nations in the group
    including Canada, which has one-quarter its population. As Paul Krugman points out,
    Spain's GDP is about the same as Russia's."
    --No1Marauder

    No1Marauder cherry-picks *nominal* GDP over GDP (PPP = purchasing power parity),
    resulting in another misleading claim ...[text shortened]... a (2nd in nominal GDP and 1st in GDP (PPP) among nations) is the invisible elephant in the room.
    Actually Nobel Prize winner Paul Krugman "cherry picked" it.

    Maybe you should e-mail him and share your superior knowledge of Economics.
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