Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    The Axe man
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    04 Oct '17 04:351 edit
    It seems to me that this Germanic language is possibly the most confounding script to learn.
    The 'rules' are bent and broken all the time.
    There is no need for the letter "K" and other constanants.

    I'm thinking that despite everything English is the most widespread language in the world. And that's kind of important.

    Ideas? Thoughts?
  2. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    04 Oct '17 07:07
    Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
    It seems to me that this Germanic language is possibly the most confounding script to learn.
    The 'rules' are bent and broken all the time.
    There is no need for the letter "K" and other constanants.

    I'm thinking that despite everything English is the most widespread language in the world. And that's kind of important.

    Ideas? Thoughts?
    Totally agree - just teaching basic spelling is a nightmare!
    (Try and think of a sentence which is phonetically spelt)

    There are three problems.
    English is from 3 main sources and the spelling is dependent on the source.
    Plus English assimilates lots of words from other languages.
    Plus any attempt at consistent spelling is impossible because of different pronunciation nationwide and internationally.
  3. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    The Axe man
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    04 Oct '17 10:53
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    Totally agree - just teaching basic spelling is a nightmare!
    (Try and think of a sentence which is phonetically spelt)

    There are three problems.
    English is from 3 main sources and the spelling is dependent on the source.
    Plus English assimilates lots of words from other languages.
    Plus any attempt at consistent spelling is impossible because of different pronunciation nationwide and internationally.
    My idle idol ..
  4. Joined
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    04 Oct '17 11:03
    Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
    It seems to me that this Germanic language is possibly the most confounding script to learn.
    The 'rules' are bent and broken all the time.
    There is no need for the letter "K" and other constanants.

    I'm thinking that despite everything English is the most widespread language in the world. And that's kind of important.

    Ideas? Thoughts?
    some languages don't have vowels. some languages don't have tenses for verbs.

    there are plenty of harder languages.


    other than that, i don't really get what your point is?
  5. SubscriberWajoma
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    04 Oct '17 11:10
    Originally posted by @zahlanzi
    some languages don't have vowels. some languages don't have tenses for verbs.

    there are plenty of harder languages.


    other than that, i don't really get what your point is?
    Some languages use capital letters. zahlanzi also uses capital letters when he is berating others about their English.

    zahalanzi:

    "This entire forum knows you for a liar and that you can barely comprehend or write english.[sic] You want to add sandy hook denier to that list? Is freaky the kind of company you wish to keep? Or you're just so desperate for approval and since you won't get it from any of the smart debaters here you're willing to get in bed with scum like him."
  6. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    04 Oct '17 11:12
    Originally posted by @zahlanzi
    some languages don't have vowels. some languages don't have tenses for verbs.

    there are plenty of harder languages.


    other than that, i don't really get what your point is?
    Don't the other languages have stricter rules than English?
    Every other language I've ever tried , while very difficult, had a fairly standard code behind the sounds of the letters.
    With English you have to be in the know, so to speak. You need visual recognition of words to be able to spell them correctly.

    The refugees (cue down thumb) have to take a fairly hard English test which many Australians couldn't pass ... Is it fair that all the 'rules' they learn about the English language are just guidelines really and the at times the spelling of words is downright impossible to understand

    ie. coccyx ... wtf?
    or
    xylophone. That's should start an 's' and have an 'f' in it by all rights!!
  7. Standard membervivify
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    04 Oct '17 11:18
    Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
    It seems to me that this Germanic language is possibly the most confounding script to learn.
    The 'rules' are bent and broken all the time.
    There is no need for the letter "K" and other constanants.

    I'm thinking that despite everything English is the most widespread language in the world. And that's kind of important.

    Ideas? Thoughts?
    French seems far more complicated, rife with silent letters and accent marks.
  8. Standard memberfinnegan
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    04 Oct '17 11:45
    Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
    Don't the other languages have stricter rules than English?
    Every other language I've ever tried , while very difficult, had a fairly standard code behind the sounds of the letters.
    With English you have to be in the know, so to speak. You need visual recognition of words to be able to spell them correctly.

    The refugees (cue down thumb) have to t ...[text shortened]... ... wtf?
    or
    xylophone. That's should start an 's' and have an 'f' in it by all rights!!
    Don't the other languages have stricter rules than English?

    Are we discussing how strict the language is or how strict its users are? My question illustrates the occasional need for accuracy - to avoid being distracted by ambiguity.

    Apart from a plague of American spell checking software, the real concern is that people assume errors do not matter, whch cn b the case when typing quickly. In a long post it is very hard to avoid typing errors and proof reading demands more patience than seems justified.

    Often they are betraying ignorance of the words they are using, and failing to appreciate that precision in the way we express or write the language is often necessary in order to avoid communication problems.

    Homonyms are infamously confusing in English: your / you're, their / they're / there. Some of the errors people make based on sound are hilarious and show that they cannot possibly understand the words they are using.

    Some tolerance is entirely reasonable. It is the price we pay for the democratisation of communication through the internet and social media. It is true that usage reveals educational attainment but this may not be sufficient justification for being rude: it depends how arrogant the flawed post is.

    When people try to get pompous about correct usage then it is laughable how often they make their own howling errors in the process. The exchange above about capitalisation is a good example.

    It is also worth checking if the source of the error is a native speaker or making a brave and courageous attempt in a second (third, fourth) language. A different first language may produce systematic types of error which can be very attractive in their own way. Part of the appeal of the way Irish people use the English language arises from their being bilingual in Irish and English.
  9. SubscriberWajoma
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    04 Oct '17 12:00
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    Don't the other languages have stricter rules than English?

    Are we discussing how strict the language is or how strict its users are? My question illustrates the occasional need for accuracy - to avoid being distracted by ambiguity.

    Apart from a plague of American spell checking software, the real concern is that people assume errors ...[text shortened]... ay Irish people use the English language arises from their being bilingual in Irish and English.
    I'm smarter than you're.
  10. Standard memberfinnegan
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    04 Oct '17 12:28
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    I'm smarter than you're.
    Well done you
  11. SubscriberWajoma
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    04 Oct '17 12:49
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    Well done you
    The thing with zahlazi, I couldn't give a hoot about capital letters, correct grammar or whatever. For some people English is a second language, (KN comes to mind) The thing was zalanzi was commenting on a fellow posters ability to write English. The curious thing was in that particular post he made some attempt at capitalisation. A poor attempt, when normally he goes out of his way to avoid the shift key.

    Berating a fellow poster for not writing English correctly while his usual MO is to murder the language is one thing, to make some cursory attempt to straighten out the act for that one post is doubly hypocritical

    It's not zahlanzis put on effected capital-less style that is the issue, it's the hypocrisy.
  12. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    04 Oct '17 13:20
    Originally posted by @vivify
    French seems far more complicated, rife with silent letters and accent marks.
    Yeah but once you learn a sound, it is always spelt the same isn't it?
    My French is poor but I remember it being fairly easy to learn at school.
    There are subtleties in many languages I guess ... Still I'd hate to have to learn English if I didn't already know it.
    Lets face it : Spelling bees are only interesting when done in English because of the sheer absurdity of the words.
    How many Australians could spell "rhythm" ? (did I get it right? )
  13. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    04 Oct '17 13:27
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    Don't the other languages have stricter rules than English?

    Are we discussing how strict the language is or how strict its users are? My question illustrates the occasional need for accuracy - to avoid being distracted by ambiguity.

    Apart from a plague of American spell checking software, the real concern is that people assume errors ...[text shortened]... ay Irish people use the English language arises from their being bilingual in Irish and English.
    I'm thinking that big languages, (like more than 10 000 000 speakers), usually have everything translated. Everything classified and labelled. like Hungarian which has no other influences on it's language.
    No matter how bad people speak there is still a very disciplined standard when it comes to public speaking and the like.

    I guess what i'm trying to guage is why the English language can't simply change to more natural spellings.

    Did "shoppe" not become "shop" over the years?
  14. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    04 Oct '17 13:31
    And here comes the acronym age. Since the advent of the net and pc speak, acronyms have taken over.
    Will they remain relegated to the 'nerds' playing computer games?
    I don't think so. Once the cat is out of the bag it's hard to get it back. ( "wtf" comes to mind . This din't mean anything 30 years ago )
  15. Standard membervivify
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    04 Oct '17 13:321 edit
    Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
    Yeah but once you learn a sound, it is always spelt the same isn't it?
    My French is poor but I remember it being fairly easy to learn at school.
    There are subtleties in many languages I guess ... Still I'd hate to have to learn English if I didn't already know it.
    Lets face it : Spelling bees are only interesting when done in English because of t ...[text shortened]... eer absurdity of the words.
    How many Australians could spell "rhythm" ? (did I get it right? )
    And it doesn't help that there are American and U.K. ways of spelling things.

    I like this bit from "I Love Lucy", where Lucy and Ricky are discussing English pronunciations:

    YouTube
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