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Ukraine Refuses Any Ceasefire

Ukraine Refuses Any Ceasefire

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@athousandyoung said
The land isn’t going anywhere.
What use is land if your population is decimated and your economy is in ruins?

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@athousandyoung said
Don't forget in 20 years Vlad Putin will probably be long dead.
Even Yeltsin opposed NATO expansion. And retention of the Crimea seems popular in both Russia and the Crimea itself. https://www.rferl.org/a/poll-majority-of-russians-support-crimea-annexation-but-worry-about-economic-effects/29859570.html

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/04/26/most-russians-support-annexation-of-crimea-poll-a73741

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/crimean-conundrum/

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@no1marauder said
"Ukraine has ruled out agreeing to a ceasefire with Russia - and said it will not accept any deal with Moscow that involves giving up territory.

In his nightly address to his people, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy vowed that although the fighting would be bloody, the end to the war in Ukraine would come only through diplomacy and that the Russian occupation of its terri ...[text shortened]... ll eventually commit to active combat operations against Russia to save them.

Any other theories?
I would think that Ukraine would accept
a ceasefire, albeit, without surrendering any territory.
This war could drag on and all of the combat
takes place in The Ukraine. How will Ukraine
recover reparations if they agree to a stand down?
Meanwhile, death and suffering daily----tricky call.

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@vivify said
https://www.npr.org/2022/04/21/1094008336/biden-announces-another-800-million-to-support-ukraine-military

Biden pledged "another" 800 million in military aid to Ukraine in addition to aiding with tactical support, such as giving Ukraine the location of a Russian warship that sank after reportedly being hit by Ukrainian missiles.

All that in addition to other western na ...[text shortened]... is "unrealistic"; this is not a purely one-on-one fight anymore, and hasn't been for quite a while.
The Russians continue to expand their areas of control in the East and South.

While they overreached in attempting to grab Kyiv and impose a puppet government, all signs indicate that they will eventually be able to solidify control of the rest of the Donbass and grab additional territory in the South.

Kev's strategy of defeating Russia by fighting to the last Ukrainian isn't going to work.

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@no1marauder said
The Russians continue to expand their areas of control in the East and South.

While they overreached in attempting to grab Kyiv and impose a puppet government, all signs indicate that they will eventually be able to solidify control of the rest of the Donbass and grab additional territory in the South.

Kev's strategy of defeating Russia by fighting to the last Ukrainian isn't going to work.
By and by, NATO may decide to assist Ukraine
with boots on the ground....
Ya' think?

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@jimm619 said
By and by, NATO may decide to assist Ukraine
with boots on the ground....
Ya' think?
I think that is what Zelensky is counting on.

Hopefully, the West will eventually come to its senses and take the advice the second article I cited gave i.e. pushing for negotiations rather than risk a likely WWIII.

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@no1marauder said
I think that is what Zelensky is counting on.

Hopefully, the West will eventually come to its senses and take the advice the second article I cited gave i.e. pushing for negotiations rather than risk a likely WWIII.
Seems a futile effort on both sides...
.A negotiated settlement would be best
I'm not so sure The Ukraine will be so amenable
to ceding territory after their surprising resistance.

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Zelensky is getting carried away. At the time of the invasion, I'm sure he'd have settled for autonomy of the Donbas. The Ukranian amazing overachievement is great, but leaders shouldn't let ephemeral successes go to their heads.

I'm not even sure why Ukraine wants to control regions that support Russian sovereignty. You might as well consolidate into a state with a permanent majority of Ukranian nationalists.

Ukraine has done a great job. Russia's got a bloody nose and will think twice before invading neighbors again. Now it's time to take down your chips and go home.

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@no1marauder said
"Ukraine has ruled out agreeing to a ceasefire with Russia - and said it will not accept any deal with Moscow that involves giving up territory.

In his nightly address to his people, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy vowed that although the fighting would be bloody, the end to the war in Ukraine would come only through diplomacy and that the Russian occupation of its terri ...[text shortened]... ll eventually commit to active combat operations against Russia to save them.

Any other theories?
And the Palestinians will never defeat the Israelis . And the Irish will never defeat the British . So they should just give up .
Oh yeah , the Afghans will never hold off the USSR and the Vietnamese will never hold against the USA . And don't forget those those rebels in America who held out against the British . All superior forces but they did not prevail . Gee golly , I wonder why ?
You should have named your post "The Cackle of The Great American Chicken "
Rox populi , rox humbug .

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@caissad4 said
And the Palestinians will never defeat the Israelis . And the Irish will never defeat the British . So they should just give up .
Oh yeah , the Afghans will never hold off the USSR and the Vietnamese will never hold against the USA . And don't forget those those rebels in America who held out against the British . All superior forces but they did not prevail . Gee golly , ...[text shortened]... u should have named your post "The Cackle of The Great American Chicken "
Rox populi , rox humbug .
In all those cases, the population of the rebellious areas bitterly opposed the occupiers.

It's pretty clear that isn't true in the Crimea, doubtful it's true in the Donbass and unclear whether it's true in the other areas presently under Russian control.

At present, it's a conventional war and one that Ukraine cannot prevail in absent direct Western intervention (with a probable risk of WWIII). I don't get why people insist that it fight to the bitter end rather than negotiate when the war is inflicting death, misery and destruction on it for little purpose except to make Westerners like you beat your chest.

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@sh76 said
Zelensky is getting carried away. At the time of the invasion, I'm sure he'd have settled for autonomy of the Donbas. The Ukranian amazing overachievement is great, but leaders shouldn't let ephemeral successes go to their heads.

I'm not even sure why Ukraine wants to control regions that support Russian sovereignty. You might as well consolidate into a state with a permanent ...[text shortened]... will think twice before invading neighbors again. Now it's time to take down your chips and go home.
I suspect the Ukraine will probably get a worse deal then the one they apparently walked out on in March.

Western leaders, including Biden, should be willing to sit at a summit with Putin and Zelensky and attempt to pressure both into some acceptable compromise. It would take political courage (I can hear the Kev's of the world screaming "Munich!" ) but it might be the only realistic way out of a drawn out conflict that is destroying the Ukraine and inflicting worldwide economic damage.

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@no1marauder said
I suspect the Ukraine will probably get a worse deal then the one they apparently walked out on in March.

Western leaders, including Biden, should be willing to sit at a summit with Putin and Zelensky and attempt to pressure both into some acceptable compromise. It would take political courage (I can hear the Kev's of the world screaming "Munich!" ) but it might be the ...[text shortened]... out of a drawn out conflict that is destroying the Ukraine and inflicting worldwide economic damage.
I tend to agree, but if I'm Zelensky, I'd only give up territory with separatists majorities. I think you can still make a reasonable deal with that caveat.

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@sh76 said
I tend to agree, but if I'm Zelensky, I'd only give up territory with separatists majorities. I think you can still make a reasonable deal with that caveat.
I suppose some internationally supervised plebiscites in the various territories could be put on the table along with security guarantees for both the Ukraine and Russia.


There's a deal to be made IMO.

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@no1marauder said
I suspect the Ukraine will probably get a worse deal then the one they apparently walked out on in March.

Western leaders, including Biden, should be willing to sit at a summit with Putin and Zelensky and attempt to pressure both into some acceptable compromise. It would take political courage (I can hear the Kev's of the world screaming "Munich!" ) but it might be the ...[text shortened]... out of a drawn out conflict that is destroying the Ukraine and inflicting worldwide economic damage.
I must reluctantly agree/
Don't see The Ukraine marching on Moscow,
and all I see is a complete destruction of Ukraine.
In the meantime, we are putting Putin,
a man with a finger on the button,
into an increasingly untenable, and humiliating position.