@athousandyoung saidYou're starting to sound like the other 10 year olds.
If Russia wants war with Ukraine maybe it should get off it's a** and declare it.
Keep holding your breath waiting for the Ukraine to win the war against Russia.
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@no1marauder saidDoesn't really matter to US security if Ukraine wins. If the Russian Black Sea fleet is destroyed (which is happening), the Russian army loses it's tanks (which is happening) and the Russians finally turn on their Dear Leader Putin (which has ample historic precedent) then who cares if they hold Crimea? Irrelevant for us. We never cared about Crimea in the first place. The Russian economy is in the garbage. They will never be able to rebuild those machines of war.
You're starting to sound like the other 10 year olds.
Keep holding your breath waiting for the Ukraine to win the war against Russia.
This is all about the self declared security needs of the great powers right?
@athousandyoung said"The Russian economy is in the garbage"
Doesn't really matter to US security if Ukraine wins. If the Russian Black Sea fleet is destroyed (which is happening), the Russian army loses it's tanks (which is happening) and the Russians finally turn on their Dear Leader Putin (which has ample historic precedent) then who cares if they hold Crimea? Irrelevant for us. We never cared about Crimea in the first plac ...[text shortened]... se machines of war.
This is all about the self declared security needs of the great powers right?
What is your source of information?
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@metal-brain saidTake your pick - Peter Zeihan, Stephen Kotkin, various Western news agencies, Al Jazeera, whatever. Russian GDP is less than Italy, Canada or Brazil.
"The Russian economy is in the garbage"
What is your source of information?
Per capita Russian GDP is below Romania and Costa Rica.
@athousandyoung said"Per capita Russian GDP is below Romania and Costa Rica."
Take your pick - Peter Zeihan, Stephen Kotkin, various Western news agencies, Al Jazeera, whatever. Russian GDP is less than Italy, Canada or Brazil.
Per capita Russian GDP is below Romania and Costa Rica.
I find that hard to believe. What is your source of information?
@metal-brain saidhttps://lmgtfy.app/?q=+gdp+by+country
"Per capita Russian GDP is below Romania and Costa Rica."
I find that hard to believe. What is your source of information?
@no1marauder saidNo your support for murdering rapists elude to your own psychological issues and have done since you started debating this issue. Your stance is literally psychotic.
Such irrational emotionalism might make you feel better, but the payment in blood and treasure to help your psychological issues isn't worth a prolonged war in the Ukraine.
How about answering the question.
What would / should the post peace deal Ukrainian map look like?
@no1marauder saidHahaha calm down dear.
IF the West wants war with Russia, it should get off its a** and declare it.
@athousandyoung saidThe Ukraine doesn't think "the Russian Black Sea fleet is [being] destroyed":
Doesn't really matter to US security if Ukraine wins. If the Russian Black Sea fleet is destroyed (which is happening), the Russian army loses it's tanks (which is happening) and the Russians finally turn on their Dear Leader Putin (which has ample historic precedent) then who cares if they hold Crimea? Irrelevant for us. We never cared about Crimea in the first plac ...[text shortened]... se machines of war.
This is all about the self declared security needs of the great powers right?
"Ukraine said Russia is strengthening its position in the Black Sea as it added the frigate Makarov, increasing the risk of missile attacks on Ukraine."
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/23/russia-ukraine-war-list-of-key-events-day-89
Even if we assume Russia can't easily replace its lost equipment, a weakening of its conventional forces will logically leads to a quicker reliance on its nuclear weapons in any future confrontation with the West. Hard to see how that enhances the "security" of the US.
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@kevcvs57 saidHard to say. Negotiations won't be easy now that the Ukraine has repeatedly hardened its position. Aggressive third party mediation is urgently needed.
No your support for murdering rapists elude to your own psychological issues and have done since you started debating this issue. Your stance is literally psychotic.
How about answering the question.
What would / should the post peace deal Ukrainian map look like?
I would support internationally supervised plebiscites in any area before permanent territorial changes (that would include the Crimea).
As to "psychotic", it's hard to accept such a characterization from someone who wants to push this war to the brink of nuclear annihilation to "call Putin's bluff".
@athousandyoung saidAccording to the World Bank, Russia's GDP per capita (nominal) is slightly higher than Romania and over 4 times what the Ukraine was. https://www.worldometers.info/gdp/gdp-per-capita/
https://lmgtfy.app/?q=+gdp+by+country
It's also higher than China's.
Any step towards a negotiated peace will be filled with bitter pills to swallow.
I can not imagine the Ukraine accepting any thought of Russia walking away with any benefit from this war.
And the rest of the world can not possibly accept any notion of letting Russia back into world affairs in any degree for a long time.
Yet the need to prevent another Germany 1933 is out there.
The debates here will go on an on.
@no1marauder saidA lot has changed in the last 5 years.
According to the World Bank, Russia's GDP per capita (nominal) is slightly higher than Romania and over 4 times what the Ukraine was. https://www.worldometers.info/gdp/gdp-per-capita/
It's also higher than China's.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gdp-per-capita-by-country
Here you can see Russia is 53rd and Romania 48th.
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@no1marauder saidMy stance on nuclear brinkmanship is the same as Russia and the West since Russia tested its first nuclear weapon, the west cannot be blackmailed into submission, short of a direct attack on Russian soil by the west there is no justification for their use, or threat of use by Putin.
Hard to say. Negotiations won't be easy now that the Ukraine has repeatedly hardened its position. Aggressive third party mediation is urgently needed.
I would support internationally supervised plebiscites in any area before permanent territorial changes (that would include the Crimea).
As to "psychotic", it's hard to accept such a characterization from someone who wants to push this war to the brink of nuclear annihilation to "call Putin's bluff".
You weighing in on the side of Putin’s nuclear Terrorist threats again points to your total lack of empathy for the Ukrainians and tacit support for every criminal action taken by Putin. Isn’t it time you came clean about your reasons for this support because you do not seem to have a moral or rational argument to justify your stance.
“ Hard to say. Negotiations won't be easy now that the Ukraine has repeatedly hardened its position. Aggressive third party mediation is urgently needed.”
So that’s a no to a return to a pre February invasion map then and let’s pretend the Ukrainians are the war mongers whilst the Russians take more and more territory, if your position wasn’t so disgusting it would be funny.
Do let us know when you and Putin are satisfied with his gains.
@mghrn55 saidWould they rather lose more territory by prolonging the war?
Any step towards a negotiated peace will be filled with bitter pills to swallow.
I can not imagine the Ukraine accepting any thought of Russia walking away with any benefit from this war.
And the rest of the world can not possibly accept any notion of letting Russia back into world affairs in any degree for a long time.
Yet the need to prevent another Germany 1933 is out there.
The debates here will go on an on.
Ukraine will lose this war. The Russians have lots of Azov battalion prisoners for prisoner swaps. When Russia gets their prisoners back they will talk about the torture (war crimes) they endured and the Russian people will support the war more than ever.
Ukraine can give up a little territory now or lose a lot more later.
Even Henry Kissinger says it will end in a peace deal to end the war.