@kevcvs57 saidSo you want Russia to withdraw from all areas it has occupied since February.
No you are lying and misrepresenting my stance again after I have repeatedly said I think Ukraine should and ultimately would accept roughly the pre invasion map and accept the loss of the eastern Donbas and Crimea but nothing Putin has gained due to his latest atrocity.
You on the other hand are very hard to pin down on just how much land Ukraine must cede and how much aut ...[text shortened]... ato and eu membership.
Perhaps you’ll take this opportunity to make your position as clear as mine.
What are you willing to offer it in return?
That is a negotiation, something you don't seem to understand. You seem to think you "negotiate" by saying what you want and insisting the other party give it to you. That's not how successful agreements get negotiated.
@no1marauder
So by extension you are also ok with Putin rebuilding the Soviet union by force.
Got it.
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@no1marauder saidRecognition of them and Russias possession of Crimea. You’ve got a solid brass neck you really have, what are you offering for all the destroyed bldgs, raped and murdered civilians, stolen grain, the 14 million displaced refugees. What is Russia offering exactly.
So you want Russia to withdraw from all areas it has occupied since February.
What are you willing to offer it in return?
That is a negotiation, something you don't seem to understand. You seem to think you "negotiate" by saying what you want and insisting the other party give it to you. That's not how successful agreements get negotiated.
Lol and I don’t know how negotiations work 🙄 are you a black comedy character right now.
@kevcvs57 saidMoral scolding is rarely a basis for successful negotiation, believe it or not.
Recognition of them and Russias possession of Crimea. You’ve got a solid brass neck you really have, what are you offering for all the destroyed bldgs, raped and murdered civilians, stolen grain, the 14 million displaced refugees. What is Russia offering exactly.
Lol and I don’t know how negotiations work 🙄 are you a black comedy character right now.
@no1marauder
Moral SCOLDING? Are you freeking KIDDING? Sounds like you are a Putin apologist, in your world it is ok for one nation to attack a peaceful nation like Russia started in 2014 and continue to this day. So you would also be ok with Putin NUKING Kyve and completely destroying Ukraine like he has already done in the south.
How in the HELL can you even THINK about condoning such barbarity?
@no1marauder saidCondescension isn’t famous for eliciting much better than a scolding, but I’m glad you see the moral aspect of it, I was beginning to wonder.
Moral scolding is rarely a basis for successful negotiation, believe it or not.
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@no1marauder saidYeah that’s right your the angel on everyone’s ones shoulder 🙄
Although you have ceaselessly lied about it ever since, I have said the invasion was morally unjustified from the beginning.
So what’s your position on a post war Ukraine, until you actually answer that question your just sounding like an annoying halfwit.
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@kevcvs57 saidI suspect no1 recommends something like the following:
Yeah that’s right your the angel on everyone’s ones shoulder 🙄
So what’s your position on a post war Ukraine, until you actually answer that question your just sounding like an annoying halfwit.
Ukraine signing a treaty or writing into it's Constitution a guarantee that they would never join an alliance kind of like Austria did. Possibly surrender control of and recognize the territories Russia has already taken.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Neutrality
That's what I would call a Russian victory.
@kevcvs57 saidMy position is already stated; it is subject to negotiations but no territory should change without an internationally supervised plebiscite in that territory. I assume though that the Ukraine will have to return to a declared neutral status.
Yeah that’s right your the angel on everyone’s ones shoulder 🙄
So what’s your position on a post war Ukraine, until you actually answer that question your just sounding like an annoying halfwit.
You don't seem to actually pay attention to what others say and you continue to throw out childish, petulant insults rather than engage in reasoned debate.
@athousandyoung saidSomething like:
I suspect no1 recommends something like the following:
Ukraine signing a treaty or writing into it's Constitution a guarantee that they would never join an alliance kind of like Austria did. Possibly surrender control of and recognize the territories Russia has already taken.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Neutrality
That's what I would call a Russian victory.
"The Ukrainian SSR solemnly declares its intention of becoming a permanently neutral state that does not participate in military blocs and adheres to three nuclear free principles: to accept, to produce and to purchase no nuclear weapons."
http://static.rada.gov.ua/site/postanova_eng/Declaration_of_State_Sovereignty_of_Ukraine_rev1.htm
@no1marauder saidNo to neutrality, Ukraine is not Putin's pawn in any way, Russia accepts its limitations or it gets sanctioned and militarily confronted forever.
My position is already stated; it is subject to negotiations but no territory should change without an internationally supervised plebiscite in that territory. I assume though that the Ukraine will have to return to a declared neutral status.
You don't seem to actually pay attention to what others say and you continue to throw out childish, petulant insults rather than engage in reasoned debate.
Ukraine will decide on its foreign policy not me, not you and not Putin!
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@kevcvs57 saidThe Ukraine had such a policy for more than two decades and signaled a willingness to return to it as part of a comprehensive settlement in March.
No to neutrality, Ukraine is not Putin's pawn in any way, Russia accepts its limitations or it gets sanctioned and militarily confronted forever.
Ukraine will decide on its foreign policy not me, not you and not Putin!
Can't understand why anyone would be willing to continue this war indefinitely rather than concede this point.
@no1marauder saidA declaration made by one of the Soviet Socialist Republics - which ceased to exist the next year - suspiciously favoring Moscow's interests.
Something like:
"The Ukrainian SSR solemnly declares its intention of becoming a permanently neutral state that does not participate in military blocs and adheres to three nuclear free principles: to accept, to produce and to purchase no nuclear weapons."
http://static.rada.gov.ua/site/postanova_eng/Declaration_of_State_Sovereignty_of_Ukraine_rev1.htm
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@athousandyoung saidAre you kidding? That was basically their declaration of independence.
A declaration made by one of the Soviet Socialist Republics - which ceased to exist the next year - suspiciously favoring Moscow's interests.
The Act of Declaration of Independence of Ukraine, which was approved by referendum, specifically states that it is:
"Implementing the Declaration of State Sovereignty of Ukraine,"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Independence_of_Ukraine