What Socialism is NOT

@shavixmir said
The people who work there, I would presume.

No, with all due respects, the people who work there would not own it. See this AI post.
So, would my granny pay the government to fix the car? From whence would her money, if there even IS money, come from?

AI Overview
Under communism, businesses are typically owned and controlled by the state or the collective, rather than private individuals or entities. The goal is to eliminate private property and establish common ownership of the means of production, theoretically leading to a classless society.

You see, it is complicated even for you, who knows 1000 times more than I do about communism. Who fixes, who pays, who has a car. Who keeps the flies off of the meat in the state-owned meat department? I have seen flies in Cuba, Ukraine and East Germany just after the wall came down.
Flies.

@AverageJoe1 said
No, with all due respects, the people who work there would not own it. See this AI post.
So, would my granny pay the government to fix the car? From whence would her money, if there even IS money, come from?

AI Overview
Under communism, businesses are typically owned and controlled by the state or the collective, rather than private individuals or entities. The ...[text shortened]... ment? I have seen flies in Cuba, Ukraine and East Germany just after the wall came down.
Flies.

It’s not complicated at all.

Capitalism = somebody owns, others produce.
Socialism/ communism = the people who produce own the production and have equal say in distribution.
State Capitalism (USSR) = the State takes over the role of ownership in capitalism.

It’s not rocket science Joe.

And if thingy becomes mayor of New York, the people who own the garage will still pwn the garage. Perhaps the mimimum wage will go up.
Which it’s going to do anyways, because otherwise a great number of Americans can’t afford the coming price hikes because of tariffs.

@shavixmir said
It’s not complicated at all.

Capitalism = somebody owns, others produce.
Socialism/ communism = the people who produce own the production and have equal say in distribution.
State Capitalism (USSR) = the State takes over the role of ownership in capitalism.

It’s not rocket science Joe.

And if thingy becomes mayor of New York, the people who own the garage will st ...[text shortened]... ecause otherwise a great number of Americans can’t afford the coming price hikes because of tariffs.

But, but, Mamdami says the govt will 'Seize the means of production". Seize the garage. And funny, yet you say the people will still own the garage. Do you expect Suzianne to understand what in the hell you are talking about, I myself do not understand what you are talking about.
Look out, everybody, Shav is about to come up with 'he didn't mean that' or some such. It is what Mamdani has ALWAYS said.
Or Shav will be honest. He will honestly deal with this issue. I am NOT picking a fight, my curiosity abounds.

@AverageJoe1 said
? The masks, little feller. Not due process. The masks were the question, I answered it. Safety for both parties. Hey y'all keep askijg why ICE wears masks. Ask us , or you, why your street people wear masks.

Well you need to improve on your comprehension. I asked two questions? One on masks and one on due process. If you don't have a response for the second part of the question just say you don't know. This is not a politicians debate where blustering through scores points with your home base.

@kmax87 said
Well you need to improve on your comprehension. I asked two questions? One on masks and one on due process. If you don't have a response for the second part of the question just say you don't know. This is not a politicians debate where blustering through scores points with your home base.

You mean the due process question? AEVRYONE is questioning due process. You think an invader in our country has the right, I think he does not. Kmax, I am not the only one, you see. You act llike it is cut and dry. You prob thnk also that any baby born here is a citizen. I think the framers were speaking of slaves. Sdo do a lot of people.
Two issues I care not to write about it, I will let my representatives handle it, many other fish to fry. Did you know the government has wanted me to pay for your child's tution loan? Now THERE is an issue.

@AverageJoe1 said
You mean the due process question? AEVRYONE is questioning due process. You think an invader in our country has the right, I think he does not. Kmax, I am not the only one, you see. You act llike it is cut and dry. You prob thnk also that any baby born here is a citizen. I think the framers were speaking of slaves. Sdo do a lot of people.
Two issues I care not to write about it, I will let my representatives handle it, many other fish to fry.

Ok. Joey Average or should I call you Dr Deflection?
So the minute you can cling to a notion of what the framers of the constitution probably meant and you can find enough fools to agree with you, then that's all it takes? What was that thing about America again. City on a shining hill, send me your poor, tired,.... blah blah blah, blah blah blah....

Basically what you're saying is when you aren't able to wriggle out of a question, deflect deflect deflect. At least you have a strategy, I suppose.

@AverageJoe1 said
But, but, Mamdami says the govt will 'Seize the means of production". Seize the garage. And funny, yet you say the people will still own the garage. Do you expect Suzianne to understand what in the hell you are talking about, I myself do not understand what you are talking about.
Look out, everybody, Shav is about to come up with 'he didn't mean that' or some such. ...[text shortened]... l be honest. He will honestly deal with this issue. I am NOT picking a fight, my curiosity abounds.

You’d have to define to which measure of the means of production the protagonist is referring to.

Considering American society, the protagonist is probably talking about gas, water and electricity.
Probably he wants to strengthen unions.
Maybe he has a form of education bill he’d liked discussed.

The garage is not on the agenda.
And even within a normal communist context, won’t be on the agenda.
Better pay, better work conditions, equal profit from bonusses.. that’s the sort of thing you’ll be talking about.

@kmax87 said
Ok. Joey Average or should I call you Dr Deflection?
So the minute you can cling to a notion of what the framers of the constitution probably meant and you can find enough fools to agree with you, then that's all it takes? What was that thing about America again. City on a shining hill, send me your poor, tired,.... blah blah blah, blah blah blah....

Basically what you're ...[text shortened]... able to wriggle out of a question, deflect deflect deflect. At least you have a strategy, I suppose.

? No deflection. I clearly said that babies of slaves were given citizenship. Framers did not think a president would erase our borders, causing all the hell. I wouldn't have, either. Would you have thought of that?
And Lady Liberty was right then and right now. One of your lot likened the chains at her feet to be those of slaves. You too are off the wall.
You prob think that we should still send billions to PBS. As if people have no other source of info......even homeless people have cell phones, little feller.

@shavixmir said
You’d have to define to which measure of the means of production the protagonist is referring to.

Considering American society, the protagonist is probably talking about gas, water and electricity.
Probably he wants to strengthen unions.
Maybe he has a form of education bill he’d liked discussed.

The garage is not on the agenda.
And even within a normal communist c ...[text shortened]... tter work conditions, equal profit from bonusses.. that’s the sort of thing you’ll be talking about.

Here , after the clear statement of Mamdani, Shav, instead of couching the phrase to cover his positions, which he will do next, is asking ME, AvJOE to tell him how to define what Mamdani said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And, P.S. you admonished me today for not reading your sentence right which included the word 'may'??? Here you say 'probably' . I did not say probably.

Ahh, we learn so much from sniveling libs on the forum

@AverageJoe1 said
? No deflection. You prob think that we should still send billions to PBS. As if people have no other source of info......even homeless people have cell phones, little feller.

I doubt that billions were ever given to PBS. And you don't like objective reporting do you. Ya mighty big lunk. Probably need a bit of alt right spin to digest the news hey big fella. I mean life produces so much anxiety. Wouldn't want to get replaced, now would you.

@kmax87 said
I doubt that billions were ever given to PBS. And you don't like objective reporting do you. Ya mighty big lunk. Probably need a bit of alt right spin to digest the news hey big fella. I mean life produces so much anxiety. Wouldn't want to get replaced, now would you.

A lib can hardly speak of angst. Ge real. 😆

@AverageJoe1 said
A lib can hardly speak of angst. Ge real. 😆

What a crack up you are big boy!

@shavixmir said
You’d have to define to which measure of the means of production the protagonist is referring to.

Considering American society, the protagonist is probably talking about gas, water and electricity.
Probably he wants to strengthen unions.
Maybe he has a form of education bill he’d liked discussed.

The garage is not on the agenda.
And even within a normal communist c ...[text shortened]... tter work conditions, equal profit from bonusses.. that’s the sort of thing you’ll be talking about.

Golly, you ignore telling us what you mean when hyou say the garage owners own the garage and at the same time Mamdani saying he will seize the garage. Give it up. Give it up before you make US give up all of our stuff. I have a lot of stuff I have earned.

Hey, can you dissect this quote for us all.? You won't.


"Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word: equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.”

-Alexis de Tocqueville

@AverageJoe1 said
But, but, Mamdami says the govt will 'Seize the means of production". Seize the garage. And funny, yet you say the people will still own the garage. Do you expect Suzianne to understand what in the hell you are talking about, I myself do not understand what you are talking about.
Look out, everybody, Shav is about to come up with 'he didn't mean that' or some such. ...[text shortened]... l be honest. He will honestly deal with this issue. I am NOT picking a fight, my curiosity abounds.

1. I have no idea if this politician is saying that or not.
2. Within a capitalist society, it wouldn’t work quite so well, as gradually letting the system. Change.

Communism is an evolution from capitalism.

3. What does it mean if the government seizes the means of production, according to you?

Do you imagine New York lining up bank directors and garage owners and shooting them?

Do you mean nationalisation? If so, then you’re talking transport, infrastructure, health care, water and electricity.
Nobody is going to nationalise a bloody garage.

Nobody wants government owned supermarkets, bodegas, gyms or even car companies.
What communists want is that the owners of these sorts of enterprises pay the producers on the workfloor a livable wage and good conditions to work in.

Nothing more.
Your paranoia is going to give you a heart attack man, chill.

@shavixmir said
1. I have no idea if this politician is saying that or not.
2. Within a capitalist society, it wouldn’t work quite so well, as gradually letting the system. Change.

Communism is an evolution from capitalism.

3. What does it mean if the government seizes the means of production, according to you?

Do you imagine New York lining up bank directors and garage owners an ...[text shortened]... nditions to work in.

Nothing more.
Your paranoia is going to give you a heart attack man, chill.

Come on man, you do not even say enough here to respond to. Just a replay of all our discussions. But I would like for you to tell everyone that reads this what a livable wage is. A 22-year-old can live on a $20/hr wage.
A man doing the same job that has three children cannot live on $20/hr. So does that mean what you just suggested as meaningless, that it is actually an impossible scenario ? OR, OR….. are you actually suggesting that a person be paid whatever amount of money that he needs to live on. This would mean that employer would pay him $40 an hour while paying another guy $20 an hour both doing the same job
Yes, I am being as redundant as you are in your opening paragraphs. But I have asked this question many many times of everyone, and no one ever ever answered it. Even Bernie cannot answer it.
Oh, I noticed you use the word infrastructure. Do you know that Bernie actually said once that Healthcare is an infrastructure.
To answer one of your simple questions, I don’t think anyone’s gonna shoot anybody.Whew.
OSHA handles working conditions.
Would you provide a factual basis for saying no one wants government owned grocery stores? Please don’t be like Sunhouse.