What's important

@sonhouse said
MY actions. Right. So whatever the hell you are talking about, whatever that is, is ten times worse than Trump getting convicted of 34 felonies or 100 million dollar fine for defamation or getting his Uni and Charity shut down by the government for PROVEN fraud.

Or stealing HUNDREDS of TS and ABOVE TS docs and storing them all over his Mar A Lago basement and outside stor ...[text shortened]... can give huge tax cut BRIBES to billionaires and maybe 100 bucks off to the poor. Yep, SO equitable.

Take your tds self somewhere else, there’s a reason I don’t converse with you, you’re a nut job!

@Bish said
How do we decide what's important to us? Is it different for everyone? Not what we decide is important - that is obviously different. But "how" we decide.

I mentioned in a different thread - "people" have been around about 300,000 years. For us to be here today - us here in this forum I mean - all of our direct lineage ancestors for 15,000 generations survived somehow long e ...[text shortened]... gical maybe. If this is just biologically interesting to our brains. Trying to make sense of it all.

The fascination is absolutely biological. You can see the fascination with body parts and potty words in very young children.

I think the differences in opinion among adults is related to whether or not you developed a healthy appreciation for the complexity of the human condition.

@mike69 said
Such pre judging, have you read anything I’ve written over the last few days to actually understand what I have issues with. Not that it would matter to you, you seem to be a typical liberal racist clown. Is there free speech or is it only when it agrees with you? How much conservative hate do you see here and I work for myself.

just say you think lgbtq people have just as much right to all the freedoms you enjoy and to live their life as they want and i will happily apologize

"is there free speech or is it only when it agrees with you?"
free speech only protects you against the government. it does not protect you against getting fired by your employer who is exercising THEIR free speech when they tell you what they think about being a homophobic ashole

"How much conservative hate do you see here and I work for myself"
nobody exists alone. if you own a shop, people can stop buying from you. of you're a contractor people can just let other know you're a homophobic garbage person. That is also free speech

@Bish said
So you are saying the extended conversation is not because of a sense of "importance" of the subject matter - as much as personal entertainment.

I think that is probably exactly right for most of us. Well said.

Maybe the OP was a bit misguided. 🤔

it is, after all, a chess site debate forum and a poorly moderated one at that.

it's not a town hall forum, it's not a newspaper or a good talkshow, it's not an election campaign

@mike69 said
Thank you, this is nothing political for me with the exception that the far left liberals who were in power and running things strengthened the lgbtq people propped them up and allowed them to do what they wish with society for political reasons, not logical or fair for all involved.

I’ve already typed all of this but let’s say your daughter was in elementary or middle s ...[text shortened]... to come, but this is easier and gives more attention to each topic that they deserve, and I’m busy.

Its two different issues Mike.

No one wants to be born into the wrong body. Our brains are funny things. Some people know they are in the wrong body. I know some of these people and in fact am very close to someone who transitioned to a woman as an adult. Completely changed her emotional life.

Side note: Her favorite holiday growing up was Halloween. As far back as she can remember - kindergarten stuff - she always dressed as a girl - maybe a superhero - but a girl. And no one cared

Favorite day of the year when she was 6. Not her birthday. Not Christmas. Halloween.

However its two different issues.

The locker room issue is a made-up thing. I know that is hard to understand - all we have is our own experiences. But no one is going to pretend to be trans - including all the pain and grief and self-loathing and societal disgust and suicide attempts - just to get a peek in a locker room. Just take a moment to step back and think about it. We are talking about kids in pain here - not perverts.

The competition issue is completely different. Yeah WTF - how can that possible be fair? My very good friend has a woman's brain in a man's body. No way she should ever be competing with women.

Which isn't to say she would always win - that is silly - there are plenty of woman athletes. But she has a man's body. We can't pretend that is not the case because it will cause her mental anguish. I would never user her dead name and never think anything other than she has a man's body.

It feels like people don't realize this stuff is complicated.

@Bish said
Its two different issues Mike.

No one wants to be born into the wrong body. Our brains are funny things. Some people know they are in the wrong body. I know some of these people and in fact am very close to someone who transitioned to a woman as an adult. Completely changed her emotional life.

Side note: Her favorite holiday growing up was Halloween. As far back as she c ...[text shortened]... g other than she has a man's body.

It feels like people don't realize this stuff is complicated.

Your not being honest with your answers or even answering them, this is pointless, I should have known better.The girls and women’s locker rooms rest rooms with girls along with swinging dcks is true. Along with what you believe doesn’t make it true having a surgery doesn’t make someone an actual woman. If they want to do this for their own sanity and happiness that’s fine, but allowing in public and schools shouldn’t be allowed. Some colleges are putting urinals in women’s rest rooms. Do you care how this makes actual women feel, 51% of our population vrs 1.5 %, it doesn’t sound like it.

@Bish said
Its two different issues Mike.

No one wants to be born into the wrong body. Our brains are funny things. Some people know they are in the wrong body. I know some of these people and in fact am very close to someone who transitioned to a woman as an adult. Completely changed her emotional life.

Side note: Her favorite holiday growing up was Halloween. As far back as she c ...[text shortened]... g other than she has a man's body.

It feels like people don't realize this stuff is complicated.

I do agree on sports, here is a short clip of the #5women’s soccer team in the world being stomped 7~0 by 15 year old boys.
YouTube?si=295lZN5KPm0qwtjy

Besides answering my questions could you explain how believing something is true makes it true, and how can this be proven vrs how a real woman or girl can be? Like I said for someone’s own happiness or sanity is not a problem if their an adult and not a minor. Why should the issues mentioned above be allowed to erase and put into effect over what’s acceptable and safe for women and girls?

@mike69 said
I do agree on sports, here is a short clip of the #5women’s soccer team in the world being stomped 7~0 by 15 year old boys.
https://youtube.com/shorts/QpRJ_SuZzg8?si=295lZN5KPm0qwtjy

Besides answering my questions could you explain how believing something is true makes it true, and how can this be proven vrs how a real woman or girl can be? Like I said for someone’s ow ...[text shortened]... above be allowed to erase and put into effect over what’s acceptable and safe for women and girls?

Maybe its time to agree to disagree Mike. I have no desire to argue with you. This is just not that interesting to me.

Since you were going to ask what is interesting to me, I will tell you. Free will. Its an illusion. St. Augustine made it up 😇

Have a good night Mike - this was fun.

@Bish said
Maybe its time to agree to disagree Mike. I have no desire to argue with you. This is just not that interesting to me.

Since you were going to ask what is interesting to me, I will tell you. Free will. Its an illusion. St. Augustine made it up 😇

Have a good night Mike - this was fun.

How could we agree to disagree you answered nothing I asked on the very first post? The problem also is you can’t answer and stay true to your Beliefs that can’t be proven as reality. I’m not arguing with you at all, I thought you might be honest and have a conversation to understand one another and find some level of truth in this mess. This is not possible with others on here, I actually viewed you as more intelligent and more of an honest person.

Since that’s more interesting to you, tell me why you believe it’s an illusion? That is unless your point will be people don’t have the free will to decide how they feel inside which I could agree on. I have empathy and love, but it doesn’t make people turn into something their not physically when talking about reality and how it effects others lives not like you. This is also discrimination that this group complains about. One reality is that a certain percentage of the lgbtq community is bringing a lot of disgust and bad feelings on themselves and blaming others for this is childish and another case of not being, living in reality.

@Bish said
I am pretty sure the lgbtq community has never effected me negatively. But I can't say 100% - who can.

There are many things conservatives in the US and Wisconsin state government have done that have effected me negatively. I live in Wisconsin and was a hard working State employee (IT Systems Analyst) until I retired. My wife and daughter are teachers. Its a bloodbath here. ...[text shortened]... y Clinton? Jesus wept.

How do you feel about Nikki Haley? That might be a decent 2028 compromise.

Fond memories of Madison. 😆

No, lgbtq has never affected me either; nor has it affected most of the people who complain about it.

Liberals have been marching hard towards ideology since the 60’s. The first 30 years were great. But they gradually drifted off into ‘white privilege’ and ‘micro aggressions’ and ‘pronouns’ and never noticed that large swaths of people weren’t following them anymore. Conservatives (not MAGA), though, have simply disappeared. It’s not clear what either camp stands for at present. That’s the only reason MAGA exists - weak, unappealing leadership from both sides. 😆

@mike69 said
How could we agree to disagree you answered nothing I asked on the very first post? The problem also is you can’t answer and stay true to your Beliefs that can’t be proven as reality. I’m not arguing with you at all, I thought you might be honest and have a conversation to understand one another and find some level of truth in this mess. This is not possible with others on ...[text shortened]... themselves and blaming others for this is childish and another case of not being, living in reality.

Why is it so difficult for you to comprehend that gender isn’t binary, but a scale?

Break it down:
Why do some people like apples and others prefer oranges?
Why do some people prefer the missionary position and others prefer other positions?
Why do some people prefer homosexual sex to heterosexual sex?

All flavours on a scale. Some people like oranges more than apples, but most will eat both. Expand that conclusion.

Now, except for the physical, what is a man?
Drinks beer, likes sport, farts in public?

Or: loves guns, shags women and smokes roll-ups?

Or: isn’t a feminine liberal wimp, but a staunch conservative, God fearing lover of mega trucks?

Some men are feminine liberal wimps, aren’t they? And some of them who are like guns. Don’t they? Or fast cars, but don’t watch sports. It’s a scale.

Now, some people think their dicks are too small. Or they think they’re tummies are too fat. Some people don’t like their noses.
Plastic surgery is an ever growing business. Bigger boobs, nose jobs, tummy tucks.
Some people don’t like going bald, so they buy wigs.
Some don’t care about their hair, but hate their tummies… it’s all a scale. Not a set measurable standard.

Now, some people are grossed out if they have a wart at the end of their nose. They have it removed. Some people are grossed out if they have body hair. So they have it lasered. Some people are grossed out by either, but don’t care enough to do anything about it.
Some men don’t like female armpit hair. So women remove it.
It’s all a scale.

Now, of society creates the image of a man being a redneck, cigar smoking, football loving, beer guzzling, tractor driving and gun toting bearded guy in a flannel shirt, then there are men who will feel: that ain’t me.

Why is it so hard for you to comprehend that not feeling like that is you, is a scale?
And when it’s a scale you will always have extremities. And one of the extremities is wanting to change the body to suit the image of what you feel.

It’s does nothing to you. It’s such a small group of people, why worry yourself so much over it? 0,2% of the population (roughly) don’t feel their gender matches their body. And of that less than 10% or so, move to having operations change the body.

How many trans people have you actually met? And how many of them are somewhere on the autism scale?

You are worrying about something small that doesn’t affect you. But your statements could be very hurtful and the policies you support are bullying.

Why? It’s a non-discussion for 99% of the bloody population.

@mike69 said
How could we agree to disagree you answered nothing I asked on the very first post? The problem also is you can’t answer and stay true to your Beliefs that can’t be proven as reality. I’m not arguing with you at all, I thought you might be honest and have a conversation to understand one another and find some level of truth in this mess. This is not possible with others on ...[text shortened]... themselves and blaming others for this is childish and another case of not being, living in reality.

Still don't get it, do you?

@Suzianne said
Still don't get it, do you?

You’re free to jump in and actually talk about it with me, but you won’t.

@mike69 said
Your not being honest with your answers or even answering them, this is pointless, I should have known better.The girls and women’s locker rooms rest rooms with girls along with swinging dcks is true. Along with what you believe doesn’t make it true having a surgery doesn’t make someone an actual woman. If they want to do this for their own sanity and happiness that’s fine, ...[text shortened]... ou care how this makes actual women feel, 51% of our population vrs 1.5 %, it doesn’t sound like it.

You are being fed lies that you are incapable of not believing, due to your own prejudices. You're letting Trump and the conservative, religious right brainwash you, but they couldn't do this if your brain were not already on that spectrum. It's sad really. Trump the Predator owns you, but you do not want to be set free.

And plenty of people in the same boat as you flounder around these forums spending their time trying to validate the sickness you all have in common.

@Bish said
Its two different issues Mike.

No one wants to be born into the wrong body. Our brains are funny things. Some people know they are in the wrong body. I know some of these people and in fact am very close to someone who transitioned to a woman as an adult. Completely changed her emotional life.

Side note: Her favorite holiday growing up was Halloween. As far back as she c ...[text shortened]... g other than she has a man's body.

It feels like people don't realize this stuff is complicated.

Some people get it, but some never will. They just don't grok that, due to their individual experience, people see the world not through the very same eyes, but a rainbow of perception, flavored (some may say 'tainted' ) by their own emotions and experience. Individual brains begin this perceptual difference (nature), and it is further shaped by experience (nurture). I cannot help but feel that empathy partly drives this difference in perception, especially for those not in the thick of the game.