@Bish saidI’m my eyes reality has to be able to be proven, not just feelings or believing in something, and not taking in other considerations of a cause, even if it isn’t comfortable.
Mike I appreciate that you take the time to read and give my ideas consideration.
I am trying to answer to the forum though. This is not a PM - we are in the village square.
Its not a matter of not wanting to deal with contradicting POV - I think we are both dealing with different POVs fine. Just because I don't agree with you, that doesn't mean your opinion is not 100% ...[text shortened]... ld all agree that its not my fault I have this dumb idea. Why criticize me? Criticize the dumb idea.
The things you’re listing as free will in my eyes are not, but fall into these categories below. We do have free will to try and get help with them or medications when needed.
Examples of causes of phobias
Past incidents or traumas. Certain situations might have a lasting effect on how you feel about them. For example, if you experienced a lot of turbulence on a plane at a young age, you might develop a phobia of flying. Or if you were injured by a dog some years ago, you might develop a phobia of dogs.
Learned responses from early life.
Your phobia may develop from factors in your childhood environment. For example you might have parents or guardians who are very worried or anxious. This may affect how you cope with anxiety in later life. You might develop the same specific phobia as a parent or older sibling. If they have a severe reaction to something they fear, this might influence you to feel the same way.
Reactions and responses to panic or fear. You might have a strong reaction, or a panic attack, in response to a situation or object. You may find yourself feeling embarrassed by this. Especially if people around you react strongly to your response. You could develop even more intense anxiety about the idea of this happening again.
Experiencing long-term stress. Stress can cause feelings of anxiety and depression. It can reduce your ability to cope in particular situations. This might make you feel more fearful or anxious about being in those situations again. Over a long period, this could develop into a phobia.
Genetic factors. Research suggests that some people are more vulnerable to developing a phobia than others.
Free will to me is not doing or just partially doing something that I know I should. An example would be not doing what Gods will is for me in my life, and having the free will to let my sin nature, heart/brain wants to do or say for reasons that go against how God wants me to be and teach me for further growth in him.
@mike69 saidCheers, I can't argue with any of that.
I’m my eyes reality has to be able to be proven, not just feelings or believing in something, and not taking in other considerations of a cause, even if it isn’t comfortable.
The things you’re listing as free will in my eyes are not, but fall into these categories below. We do have free will to try and get help with them or medications when needed.
Examples of causes o ...[text shortened]... do or say for reasons that go against how God wants me to be and teach me for further growth in him.
One question - when my granddaughter was born, her and her mom spent 3 or 4 days figuring out the feeding thing. My daughter was using her free will (or not), but I think we can agree the baby's decision making process was something else.
She was learning to be sure - but was she decision making 10 minutes out of the womb? Did she have a choice of trying to latch on or not? Given that she had never see a human body before.
Do babies take the wheel at some point and started having free will? Is it the same for all babies? Is free will another growth stage?
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@Bish saidThe baby comes out naturally knowing how to latch on and suck without a thought process at all, free will or anything else being involved along with other things. There may be a learning curve for some on getting it down perfect. You put your finger to a baby’s mouth and it try’s to eat or draw comfort from it. My ex wife of 26 years is a labor and delivery nurse now doing high risk pregnancies and breast fed all of our children even though a bottle would be the same as far as latching on and sucking.
Cheers, I can't argue with any of that.
One question - when my granddaughter was born, her and her mom spent 3 or 4 days figuring out the feeding thing. My daughter was using her free will (or not), but I think we can agree the baby's decision making process was something else.
She was learning to be sure - but was she decision making 10 minutes out of the womb? Did she h ...[text shortened]... oint and started having free will? Is it the same for all babies? Is free will another growth stage?
The main reason I also know this is that our last child Nathan was anacephalic, meaning where the top of the head was, the brain and skull were missing so no free will. He looked perfect with a cap on, acted and breast fed instantly no differently than our other four children, with no discomfort just sadly quietly passing in my arms after almost 9 hours.
@mike69 saidThat is a horrible loss for you my friend in debate. But it was also a horrible loss for Nathan. He was only able to have a great dad for a short time.
The baby comes out naturally knowing how to latch on and suck without a thought process at all, free will or anything else being involved along with other things. There may be a learning curve for some on getting it down perfect. You put your finger to a baby’s mouth and it try’s to eat or draw comfort from it. My ex wife of 26 years is a labor and delivery nurse now doing h ...[text shortened]... other four children, with no discomfort just sadly quietly passing in my arms after almost 9 hours.
So here we are Mike. This is the discussion. As you can imagine - when I said this was important to me - I have had this discussion a lot over the years. Its always the same. Yes we have free will they say - so I say - "what about this" - and they say oh that is not free will, that is something different. OK, what about this - oh no - that is not free will either - that's something else too. No matter what example I give - I am told - yes we have free will - my example is something different. All good.
Last one and we can leave on a melancholy note. The mood has changed - not better or worse - different. You showing so much vulnerability is a bit stunning given the milieu.
My idea is that we do what we do - and there is zero evidence anywhere that we could have done anything different. When someone says to me, "I should have made a different choice" (read: my other sister), my natural reaction is no, that is not possible. No one in the history of the world has ever made a different choice. Everyone has done what they did. The world marches forward with our "choices" - never goes back, never changes, there is no logic to the statement - I could have done something different.
It is possible they could have done something different? Sure. But based on what logic, what science, what faith? Based on what?
God bless
@Bish
It’s ok, I’ve actually never mentioned it to anyone that wasn’t around me at the time and no way to get around it. I had a feeling in my heart from God after you brought up what you did that I should.and that there was a reason, maybe to help someone else going through the same or something similar so I trusted in that. My wife went through much more of course and my heart goes to her. You also said we only have five senses but I a disagree, she knew within a couple of weeks that something was wrong and that he wouldn’t make it. Out of fear she didn’t go to the Dr., very uncommon for her, or get any check ups until 5 or 6 months and had to. Taking into account she was working with them in labor and delivery, and sure enough she was correct when we went in. Things like this weren’t uncommon for either of us and I’m sure for many others leading to this conclusion, sorry it just popped into my head :-).
My idea is that we do what we do - and there is zero evidence anywhere that we could have done anything different. When someone says to me, "I should have made a different choice" (read: my other sister), my natural reaction is no, that is not possible. No one in the history of the world has ever made a different choice. Everyone has done what they did. The world marches forward with our "choices" - never goes back, never changes, there is no logic to the statement - I could have done something different.
It is possible they could have done something different? Sure. But based on what logic, what science, what faith? Based on what?
From what I’m reading I don’t feel you are describing what free will actually is. Of course we can’t go back in time and change a choice after making it, that would take a time machine which we don’t have so this thought pattern isn’t even possible, therefore not even considered of what free will actually is. Free will is having the ability before hand to make a choice from one or multiple choices, things like the right or wrong choice, I should have picked that hand with the prize but chose incorrectly, Gods will in a certain situation like above or not from our sin nature or just not having the courage or strength to do so. It’s not about do I have the ability to change a choice I’ve already made, that’s a different question altogether.
@moonbus saidLOL! 😆
This would be a great topic for discussion. I'm not sure which forum it belongs in though. Personally I agree with Bish, that freewill is an illusion--or, perhaps better formulated as a "grammatical fiction." There is no inner invisible muscle which makes the body move. Nonetheless, we are responsible for our actions. And that requires some unpacking.
So, I will leave it at this for now: "We must believe in freewill, we have no choice!" -- Isaac Singer
@mike69 saidNo dumb arse.
It’s sad you can’t understand how dumb and pointless your words are here and actually think you made any points nut job 😂. Trying reading what I’ve actually said and quit putting words in my mouth that make you feel justified in your opinions of me, truth is truth, wrong is wrong common sense just ain’t what it used to be.
Your self-centred view of how fhe world should think is your problem.
Even when I take you step by baby step through how other people (including the medical community) view the situation, you claim it’s not reality.
Ergo, I’m wasting my time. Just take your meds.
@mike69 saidAll 0,2% of the population is being forced down your throat? Snowflake!
Where it’s overwriting and being forced into and on society’s reality and actual truth and not on feelings and who someone wants to screw and pretend to be for self healing. Thailand where much of this first became popular, Are you shting me? Small fringe groups thinking something true makes it so and for everyone based off their thought and personal likes, you’re another nut job.
@shavixmir saidYou’re a nut not worth responding to like your brother sonhouse.
All 0,2% of the population is being forced down your throat? Snowflake!
@mike69 saidWell, apparently, there are two kinds of people in America at present. One, who believe in Jesus' teaching that we should love others as we love ourselves and have tolerance for those who are different than us. The other, as typified by the 'southern redneck', have absolutely zero tolerance for anyone who is different than they are. They are your friend, no doubt, as long as you are white and straight. Everyone else can convert or die, never mind that it is not so easy to change the color of one's skin. If you are different, then you can just move along, if you know what's good for you. These 'others' have been vilified in American media since the 1950s at least. Familiar good, 'otherness' bad.
In 2016 Obama first passed that children could use rest rooms of their perceived gender, before that women were allowed privacy and safety while using the restrooms without men so only for 9years by a liberal president. With that said I would argue that this is not true reality or widely agreed with, just political and won’t last. What someone believes isn’t reality, would y ...[text shortened]... examples not to mention the sickness being shown to children at your parades, you should be ashamed.
What has always sustained these intolerant types is their conviction that "most people believe like me", and that "these others are forcing this on me". One of the most heinous of these foolish beliefs is that gender reassignment means nothing, that one can decide on what to wear that day like what clothes they wear or what style they wear their hair. This does not exist. Those who seek gender reassignment are dedicated to their change. It is NOT something they change from day to day, nor is it something they turn 'on' or 'off'. This is the biggest lie of all.
These lies are only told so that those who believe these lies can gain more supporters. THIS is the legacy of fear that these people insist on bringing to the table.
"Hatred paralyzes life; love releases it. Hatred confuses life; love harmonizes it. Hatred darkens life; love illuminates it." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
@Suzianne saidF off and try answering some of the many questions I’ve asked you dumb B
Well, apparently, there are two kinds of people in America at present. One, who believe in Jesus' teaching that we should love others as we love ourselves and have tolerance for those who are different than us. The other, as typified by the 'southern redneck', have absolutely zero tolerance for anyone who is different than they are. They are your friend, no doubt, as long ...[text shortened]... uses life; love harmonizes it. Hatred darkens life; love illuminates it." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
@mike69 saidThis is what makes your Christianity false. Instead of actually following Jesus' words, you hide behind your interpretation of what he said. And you, for sure, have no tolerance. You would have thrown the first stone at that woman accused of adultery, not because you have no sin, but because you think you're better than her.
As far as Jesus, what did he say about children, a man laying with another man, women teaching, and more. Your dead church within 15 or twenty years, look it up and the reasons, and you pick choose what you want from the Bible and disregard the rest, response?