@mike69 saidEvery day, there are more and more laws attempting to restrict LGBTQ+ and what they say and do. Moreover, some of these laws affect their very lives, making living their best life very difficult, if not impossible. And this is because of people exactly like you.
Is anyone telling lgbtq they can’t be what they are, and -lease don’t say a woman which can go both ways but one is a belief and not a fact or proven in any way.
@moonbus saidVery well done.
For a great many people, there is not any 'how' about it; it's more the milieu one grows up in, what's assumed, without question, to be normal is just accepted, until one gets confronted with something quite unexpected.
I remember my sister came home with a Chicano boy friend, we invited him to stay for dinner. And it was, oh, gosh, Mexicans are people, just like us. They ...[text shortened]... ) the people affected are remote and unknown, and c) you could get killed or assaulted for doing it.
@mike69 said"with lgbtq pissing on the rights of others"
And how’s that working out with lgbtq pissing on the rights of others and forced agenda put on others? I don’t have anything against them for just being what they are, but we both know that isn’t what the issues are. If your dumb enough to blame it on racism like the person above and not open your eyes and heart to what’s going on then your head is buried in the sand and you yourself are a racist.
Are you so blind that you cannot see that what's going on is the exact opposite?
How does one even get to be so blind?
The solution here is simply common (or, evidently, not-so-common) empathy. Jesus taught this as his commandment to "love your neighbor as you love yourself".
When will you stop blaming your failure on others?
@Suzianne saidAt some point I got so fed up I couldn’t bear it any more, and I voted with my feet. There wasn’t one specific issue, but a whole constellation of issues. Living abroad is a great eye-opener. No country is paradise and no government is perfect, but I found that living in three other countries, after growing up in America, enabled me to focus on the issues which are important to me. And I discovered that one of issues which is definitely not important is the luxury of buying booze at 3 a.m. on a Sunday morning.
Very well done.
@Bish saidI don't agree that free will is an illusion. But this is probably not the place for this discussion, plus I don't feel personally threatened by you holding this opinion. You can think this all day long, but it probably won't affect my life. I cannot say the same for the deeper discussion others here want to draw you into.
Maybe its time to agree to disagree Mike. I have no desire to argue with you. This is just not that interesting to me.
Since you were going to ask what is interesting to me, I will tell you. Free will. Its an illusion. St. Augustine made it up 😇
Have a good night Mike - this was fun.
@moonbus saidI understand. It becomes a quality-of-life issue. I certainly would not want to raise kids in this environment.
At some point I got so fed up I couldn’t bear it any more, and I voted with my feet. There wasn’t one specific issue, but a whole constellation of issues. Living abroad is a great eye-opener. No country is paradise and no government is perfect, but I found that living in three other countries, after growing up in America, enabled me to focus on the issues which are important ...[text shortened]... ssues which is definitely not important is the luxury of buying booze at 3 a.m. on a Sunday morning.
@Suzianne saidThis would be a great topic for discussion. I'm not sure which forum it belongs in though. Personally I agree with Bish, that freewill is an illusion--or, perhaps better formulated as a "grammatical fiction." There is no inner invisible muscle which makes the body move. Nonetheless, we are responsible for our actions. And that requires some unpacking.
I don't agree that free will is an illusion. But this is probably not the place for this discussion, plus I don't feel personally threatened by you holding this opinion. You can think this all day long, but it probably won't affect my life. I cannot say the same for the deeper discussion others here want to draw you into.
So, I will leave it at this for now: "We must believe in freewill, we have no choice!" -- Isaac Singer
@moonbus saidGood one. 🙂
This would be a great topic for discussion. I'm not sure which forum it belongs in though. Personally I agree with Bish, that freewill is an illusion--or, perhaps better formulated as a "grammatical fiction." There is no inner invisible muscle which makes the body move. Nonetheless, we are responsible for our actions. And that requires some unpacking.
So, I will leave it at this for now: "We must believe in freewill, we have no choice!" -- Isaac Singer
@Suzianne saidIn 2016 Obama first passed that children could use rest rooms of their perceived gender, before that women were allowed privacy and safety while using the restrooms without men so only for 9years by a liberal president. With that said I would argue that this is not true reality or widely agreed with, just political and won’t last. What someone believes isn’t reality, would you like examples? To magically, legally change gender back and fourth minute by minute as to how you feel also isn’t reality but delusional, yes I said gender isn’t fluid which we can jump to next with timelines and agendas after you answer to this. Did you not read what I said about having love and empathy for these people that it’s the politics and these things being forced on us I disagree with. I also think it’s disgusting that you chant were here were queer and were coming for your children while this isn’t hidden but in plain sight of the tactics being used right now and how far it’s actually advanced, would you like the many examples not to mention the sickness being shown to children at your parades, you should be ashamed.
"with lgbtq pissing on the rights of others"
Are you so blind that you cannot see that what's going on is the exact opposite?
How does one even get to be so blind?
The solution here is simply common (or, evidently, not-so-common) empathy. Jesus taught this as his commandment to "love your neighbor as you love yourself".
When will you stop blaming your failure on others?
@Suzianne saidAs far as Jesus, what did he say about children, a man laying with another man, women teaching, and more. Your dead church within 15 or twenty years, look it up and the reasons, and you pick choose what you want from the Bible and disregard the rest, response?
"with lgbtq pissing on the rights of others"
Are you so blind that you cannot see that what's going on is the exact opposite?
How does one even get to be so blind?
The solution here is simply common (or, evidently, not-so-common) empathy. Jesus taught this as his commandment to "love your neighbor as you love yourself".
When will you stop blaming your failure on others?
@mike69 saidREAL human will NEVER forget the corruption in plain sight of Trump.
Take your tds self somewhere else, there’s a reason I don’t converse with you, you’re a nut job!
YOU on the other hand have your lips superglued to Trumps ass so there is no depth of pravity Trump can fall to, Trump says JUMP and you go 'yes my lord, is this high enough my lord?"
Just a thought regarding LGQ whatever gatherings...Someone very close to me once worked for the UK government, with responsibility for relocating trans - gender employees, give them a new start, that kind of thing. Back in the day, say 25 years ago, there was just one filing cabinet which dealt with the whole of the UK. it wasn't so common back then. Anyway, these people fell broadly into two categories, those who quietly got on with it with no fuss, who tended to integrate easily into the new working environment, and those who made a right 'song and dance' about it, and were a right royal pain in the butt for those trying to manage them.
Take that out into the broader world, and perhaps it's true to say that collective, public displays of any particular sexuality or sexual preference may tend to foster a sense of 'differentness' and may in this sense be counter - productive. I see no reason why anyone should or would be 'proud' to be gay, or whatever, any more than I should be 'proud' to be heterosexual. 'Look at us, we've all got blue eyes...'
My question would be, so what?
As I say, just a thought....
@Bish saidThere is a 'thin end of the wedge' effect in play with some people. For some people, desegregation and Black people voting was already too much. For some people, decriminalizing voluntary sex acts between (or among) adults in private was too much. Then came women's lib. Allowing women a no-fault divorce option was too much, and on top of gays coming out in public and Blacks voting, some people felt like strangers in their own land. The 1960s and the 'summer of love' initiated large-scale social changes, and there was no going back to the '50s. Personally, I can't get worked up over who is using which toilet, but obviously this has become a sort of red line, a symbolic 'here and no farther', for people who can't keep pace with all the other changes (women's lib, gay lib, Blacks voting, a Black president, gender fluidity, and so on).
Is there a fear factor? If gay and trans is normalized in modern day society (it's not the year 500 A.D. anymore), does that add a fear of what's next?
If there are no "rules" anymore - does that scare some?
We once had a rousing discussion with @KellyJay, who claimed that if society allows people to just say they're men when they're really women, or v.v., what's to stop someone from saying he's 58 when he's really 28? Where do we draw the line? And the answer is, it isn't a line, it's a gray area, and exactly that is what is hard for people with dogmatic minds to accept. If someone gives his age as something it isn't, I'd probably think the person was vain, or deluded, but nothing more serious than that.
However, if someone claims he's 58 when he's really 28 and he's running for president of the United States, then that does cross a line, it would indeed matter to me (even though I'm not a U.S. citizen anymore). Why? Because I have friends and family there, and because America is the world's showcase Rechtsstaat, and if America stops living by the rule of law and becomes an UNrechtsstaat, the rest of the world will suffer. I'd rather see America as top dog, even when it makes egregious mistakes sometimes (such as invading Iraq and Afghanistan, or electing an insurrectionist felon), than see Russia or China as top dog.
@Suzianne saidIllusion is not the right word - however free will probably does not work quite as we think it does.
I don't agree that free will is an illusion. But this is probably not the place for this discussion, plus I don't feel personally threatened by you holding this opinion. You can think this all day long, but it probably won't affect my life. I cannot say the same for the deeper discussion others here want to draw you into.
I do not chose to love champagne or choose to hate pickled beets. It just is.
This is the place for this discussion - this is exactly what I was thinking about yesterday morning when I started the thread. How do we decide what's important to us?
I am not sure we do. Any more than we choose what we fear or love.
My sister in Tucson thinks my good fortune in life has been due to good luck, and her poor fortune in life is due to bad luck. I agree.
@shavixmir saidThat’s some of the dumbest crap I’ve read to counter what I’m saying about reality vrs just believing something to be true? If your view on gender is truth and based on the stupidity of what someone likes and dislikes proves it to be true why has it never been accepted as such until recent history? Have society’s just not been intellectually competent in deciding on only two until this woke fantasy world came along with far left liberal leadership and agendas changing the fabric of our society to fit their beliefs and goals until now?
Why is it so difficult for you to comprehend that gender isn’t binary, but a scale?
Break it down:
Why do some people like apples and others prefer oranges?
Why do some people prefer the missionary position and others prefer other positions?
Why do some people prefer homosexual sex to heterosexual sex?
All flavours on a scale. Some people like oranges more than ap ...[text shortened]... policies you support are bullying.
Why? It’s a non-discussion for 99% of the bloody population.