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Debates Forum

  1. 13 Aug '14 20:05
    will it?
  2. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    13 Aug '14 22:08
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    will it?
    Bombing American supplied military hardware might even the odds...

    History does not show bombing to be effective on its own but who says it will be on its own? We are also in a new age of drone warfare which may be extended here. The Kurds are being reequipped and the Iraq government reorganised.

    Interesting to see how they handle the Syrian side of things though. A witches brew...
  3. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    13 Aug '14 22:18
    It will accomplish what it is intended to accomplish which is to destroy the heavy weapons ISIS looted.
  4. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    14 Aug '14 01:40
    http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2014/08/12/dnt-todd-tsr-iraq-isis-leader.cnn.html
  5. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    14 Aug '14 06:16
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    will it?
    The short answer is "no". Like the Iraq invasion, all bombing will do is inflame an already unstable situation.
  6. 14 Aug '14 07:11
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Bombing American supplied military hardware might even the odds...

    History does not show bombing to be effective on its own but who says it will be on its own? We are also in a new age of drone warfare which may be extended here. The Kurds are being reequipped and the Iraq government reorganised.

    Interesting to see how they handle the Syrian side of things though. A witches brew...
    Its a really interesting perspective, that is how sophisticated is the military hardware that these guys have? Usually their armoured vehicles consist of an open top jeep with a mounted machine gun, some rocket launchers, mortars and well that's pretty much it. How they managed to rout the allegedly better equipped Iraqi army is a phenomena in itself.
  7. 14 Aug '14 07:22 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by bill718
    The short answer is "no". Like the Iraq invasion, all bombing will do is inflame an already unstable situation.
    I tend to agree, all these guys will do is go underground. The question is, how has the situation arisen and the answers seem to be a weak and divided Iraqi political system, demoralised and badly paid Iraqi army which has still failed to recover from being destroyed by the Americans (the still have no airforce I understand), the instability of the entire region created by the vacuum after the Americans destroyed the Iraqi military and fallout from the Syrian civil war which the Americans vehemently refused to get involved in. Bombing them will fail because they will simply go underground and resurface after its all over.

    This raises serious questions, did the Americans deliberately destabilised the region after all, they had the responsibility for rebuilding Iraq and they left it, politically divided and weak and with a military that was impotent.
  8. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    14 Aug '14 08:35
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Its a really interesting perspective, that is how sophisticated is the military hardware that these guys have? Usually their armoured vehicles consist of an open top jeep with a mounted machine gun, some rocket launchers, mortars and well that's pretty much it. How they managed to rout the allegedly better equipped Iraqi army is a phenomena in itself.
    Nobody routed the Iraqi army. It ran away. The American supplied equipment left behind has given the ISIS a massive advantage.
  9. 14 Aug '14 09:04 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Nobody routed the Iraqi army. It ran away. The American supplied equipment left behind has given the ISIS a massive advantage.
    These armaments were procured after the Iraqi army ran away Finnegan, not prior to it which means that an allegedly better equipped army (the Iraqis) were routed, (call it running away if you like it amounts to the same thing) by a raggle taggle army of jihadists with inferior weapons. Now something is seriously wrong there.
  10. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    14 Aug '14 10:32
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    These armaments were procured after the Iraqi army ran away Finnegan, not prior to it which means that an allegedly better equipped army (the Iraqis) were routed, (call it running away if you like it amounts to the same thing) by a raggle taggle army of jihadists with inferior weapons. Now something is seriously wrong there.
    Some were of course but a lot fell into their hands when left behind by a fleeing army. The point is indeed that a better equipped army ran away and was afraid to fight. Or maybe did not wish to fight because it had no loyalty to its government?
  11. 14 Aug '14 10:59
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Some were of course but a lot fell into their hands when left behind by a fleeing army. The point is indeed that a better equipped army ran away and was afraid to fight. Or maybe did not wish to fight because it had no loyalty to its government?
    yes and therin lies the rub!
  12. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    14 Aug '14 14:58 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I tend to agree, all these guys will do is go underground. The question is, how has the situation arisen and the answers seem to be a weak and divided Iraqi political system, demoralised and badly paid Iraqi army which has still failed to recover from being destroyed by the Americans (the still have no airforce I understand), the instability of the ...[text shortened]... lding Iraq and they left it, politically divided and weak and with a military that was impotent.
    Frankly I'm not sure what the REAL reason for invading Iraq was. Bush and Co. claimed it was to take out weapons of mass destruction that threatened American security, after we found out there were no WMD's, Bush and Co. claimed there was a "link" between Iraq and the 9/11 attacks, after that was also found to be a lie, Bush and Co. simply waved the flag, and questioned the patriotism of anyone opposed to the war. Considering the long standing ties the Bush and Bin laden families have, and their many business dealings together offshore, I'm not sure we'll ever know. One thing I am sure of though, Obama is having to walk a fine line between letting the Iraq people deal with there own problems, and sending the US military back in to stabilize a situation, that America was responsible for in the first place. I don't think there are any good solutions for Obama here, but President Obama wanted this job, so let him deal with it.
  13. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    14 Aug '14 15:28
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Its a really interesting perspective, that is how sophisticated is the military hardware that these guys have? Usually their armoured vehicles consist of an open top jeep with a mounted machine gun, some rocket launchers, mortars and well that's pretty much it. How they managed to rout the allegedly better equipped Iraqi army is a phenomena in itself.
    Arab troops are of legendarily poor quality (except the fanatic jihadists)
  14. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    14 Aug '14 17:07
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Arab troops are of legendarily poor quality (except the fanatic jihadists)
    ...and the Iraqi army are Arabs?
  15. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    14 Aug '14 19:23 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    ...and the Iraqi army are Arabs?
    I don't know for certain but I believe it is heavily Arab. Maybe ethnic Iranians. The Assyrians are no longer significant in Iraqi ethnic politics though it is their homeland.

    Its something even the British noticed in WW1; no respect for discipline, constant negotiation for big scary weapons they don't know how to use, always asking for lots of outside support, wasting ammo celebrating every pseudo victory, poor security and morale...

    EDIT Iraq is part of the Arab World.