Are humans fundamentally good or bad?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Many people believe that there is a certain amount of good as well as evil within the heart of a man. However, God declares to us in the Bible that there is no goodness in the heart of man. God says [b]“The heart of man is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked: who can know it...” (Jeremiah 17:9)
.[/b]

Take it to Spirituality, please. Some of us here don't like being preached at. Quoting from your favourite book contributes nothing to the discussion.

Originally posted by Kewpie
Take it to Spirituality, please. Some of us here don't like being preached at. Quoting from your favourite book contributes nothing to the discussion.

To remove the metaphysical from this argument is foolish, Kewpie. Regardless of one's view of the Bible, one should consider it. I'd like to consider myself academically honest to consider every point of view. It's called academic integrity.

Bertrand Russel tried to remove the metaphysical from arguments in the 1960s. One of his first statements (I paraphrase)-"If it is not mathematical or scientific then toss it out as sophistry unfit for discussion...".

Problem-his statement is neither mathematical or scientific; it fails its own test.

You are responding to a metaphysical post in a forum. You cannot remove the basic substance without entering into sophistry yourself.

And those who suggest goodness has a purely biological basis cannot assert this without first making a metaphysical argument to debunk the metaphysical...OR they are forced to assert as Bertrand Russell did, but once again it fails it's own test.

So I say let people bring religion in. It has many things to add!

Originally posted by Kewpie
Take it to Spirituality, please. Some of us here don't like being preached at. Quoting from your favourite book contributes nothing to the discussion.

Why so defensive and condescending. Why slap someone in the mouth just for the very mention of something spiritual. You are in a thread that deals directly with the moral fiber of humanity. You should have expected spirituality to creep in.

It's just downright mean to demand that anyone who dares participate in the GF only use points of view that you approve of.

If you are so offended by spirituality, I suggest you stick with word-assocation threads.

OK, I'll take a break from the GF then. I thought this was going to be a discussion on what makes babies respond to good or bad. Seems I was wrong.

Originally posted by Kewpie

OK, I'll take a break from the GF then. I thought this was going to be a discussion on what makes babies respond to good or bad. Seems I was wrong.

Psychopomp.

Originally posted by Kewpie
OK, I'll take a break from the GF then. I thought this was going to be a discussion on what makes babies respond to good or bad. Seems I was wrong.

I do hope your joking Kewpie, just as deluded people have the right to express their delusions, so You/We have a right to give Your/Our opinion of those delusions.

If they have a problem with the exchange of honest opinion they can scurry back into Church where their delusions can go unchallenged.

Nobody who has spent 5 minutes on these forums interprets the phrase 'Take it to the(pick a forum)' as anything more than a throwaway critique of somebody's post.

As for the rest of the Gobbledygodgook the best option is to disregard it as anything more than an example of preacher syndrome.

It's not either/or. It's both. Anyone paying attention can figure that out.

Originally posted by apathist
It's not either/or. It's both. Anyone paying attention can figure that out.

No it's not. What is not either/or, reality?

So you fail to pay attention.

This thread has not even begun to ask if the label's, Good and Bad, are good or bad, or meaningless.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic
can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell."
(C. S. Lewis)

Originally posted by apathist
So you fail to pay attention.

There you go again with the negative labels, maybe I succeeded in not paying attention.😉

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic
can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell."
(C. S. Lewis)

Just what we needed to clarify the issue, a quote from the Author of 'The lion the Witch and the Wardrobe'.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic
can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell."
(C. S. Lewis)

How does refusing to believe that humans are inherently evil equate with diminishing God's glory?

Just stand by and watch friends preparing to fry?