Originally posted by SMSBear716Calling all the Germans that died in Dresden "Nazi" is like saying all the Americans who have died Iraq are "Conservative Republicans".
At the time of the Hiroshima bombing, most the inhabitants were military personnel anyway.
Which was more destructive anyway, the bombings by conventional weaponry which caused huge firestorms because of the construction techniques and materials used in Japanese cities or a nuclear bomb?
What about what happen at Dresden? or was that bad too, even though it was war and the affected persons were Nazis?
It's not true.
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Originally posted by PhlabibitAh yes, those were the good old days. Kill'um all and let god sort'um out. All these rules of war are turning mankind into a bunch of sissies.
Calling all the Germans that died in Dresden "Nazi" is like saying all the Americans who have died Iraq are "Conservative Republicans".
It's not true.
P-
G.
Originally posted by reinfeldyeah ... WWII started in the early 30's in Asia, not in the late 30's in Europe ...
..the victim list is a negative one...the many who did not die from further japanese imperialist attacks...the japanese who did not die
defending the empire as we invaded...the americans who did not die
razing kyoto to the ground...let us remember the rape of nanking...the wholesale slaughter of the philippines...the death camps run by the "honorable japa ...[text shortened]... y than died in japan....they got what they wanted...death for the emperor's honor...banzai !
Originally posted by CabaThe Japanese just don't give up as easy as you are trying to make people believe or someone has made you believe. They still had a massive army spread throughout the World. Plus their mainland had millions of people all willing and capable to protect their mainland. They have this thing about wanting to save face. They had been asked to surrender and was warned of the outcome if they didn't surrender. They refused, and at some point the war had to end. The allied forces needed it to end. One way or another it had to happen, I personally wish it could have been sooner and without a single casualty, but realistically that wasn't going to happen. Their government was to unwilling to work together to come to the realization the war had to end. They truly didn't care about the lives of even their own people. Human lives meant little to them in that time period. As terrible as it was for the war to end as it did with so many killed, I find it interesting that it ended in the same way it had started, with a bombing attack. It could have all been avoided had [they] never attacked the "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" in the first place!!! But guess what Japan is much better now and so are their people. Americans and the Japanese people are both very forgiving people and we have become close friends and allies and work well and agree together in not all but many international and world events.
There was no need to invade Japan with the massive loss of live you talk about. They were a broken nation and naval blockades and conventional bombing would have ultimately brought it's surrender.
Cooking tens of thousands of civilians in a 3000 degree fireball was nothing more than intimidation of the Soviet's.
If the bombs had to be used it should have at least been demonstrated to the Japanese first without the target been a large civilian area.
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Originally posted by Phlabibitsplit hairs why don't you..... should we do a poll to see how many were members of the Nazi party at the time of the Dresden bombing care to take bets on what the percentage was?
Calling all the Germans that died in Dresden "Nazi" is like saying all the Americans who have died Iraq are "Conservative Republicans".
It's not true.
P-
Originally posted by AThousandYoungRead my original post, I stated that the people affected by the Dresden Bombing were Nazis... now you going to argue there were no Nazis in Dresden at the time? Why was dresden being bombed? to reduce the military production capability of the NAZIS.
Not necessary. Your statement was clearly untrue.
And you know what the worst part is? Some them Germans in Dresden that were killed, were propably good church going , God fearing people
and Nazi Party members
I threw that in just for you ATY
Originally posted by SMSBear716You said that the affected persons were nazis. Nobody is saying that there were no nazis in Dresden at the time. The point was that not all of the people affected by the Dresden bombing were nazis.
Read my original post, I stated that the people affected by the Dresden Bombing were Nazis... now you going to argue there were no Nazis in Dresden at the time?
Originally posted by NordlysAnd I never said they were all Nazis, but I think I bet that out of the 35,000 to 135,000 estimated to have been killed and the additional number injured, a good number were Nazis
You said that the affected persons were nazis. Nobody is saying that there were no nazis in Dresden at the time. The point was that not all of the people affected by the Dresden bombing were nazis.
The whole point at the heart of this discussion was the implied contention that only 'innocent civilians' were killed at Hiroshima, when thats blatantly false. And carrying that further, that the people killed at Hiroshima were unnecssarily 'murdered' by the Americans, Well guess what, then the Germans killed at Dresden must have been 'murdered' by the Americans and the Brits.
The reality of it is that war is never pleasant, the purpose of the military in war is to breaks things and kill people. Both events had the effect of helping end the war, and therefore saving a multitude of lives on both sides.
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Originally posted by CabaI saw a documentary about a Dutch woman who was a nurse in the far east (Singapore I believe but I may be mistaken on the exact place), when the Japanese took her prisoner she was shipped back to Japan (with others) and placed in a brothel (probably subsidised so very cheap to use her) and was forced to service multitudes of Japanese soldiers for an extended time (I forget how long exactly, but I seem to remember it was over a year). She went insane and lived out the rest of her life that way.. Obviously they would have been atrocities on both sides, but this is not a case of a small platoon of men going crazy through stress and doing things which should not happen, this was an instance of a beaurocartic decision to abuse her (and others) in this way, and did not occur momentarily in the heat of the moment. This is the enemy that had to be dealt with
There is no justification for the deliberate targeting of civilian populations with nuclear weapons. It's a breach of the Geneva convention and is a war crime.
Fair point about Dresden, that was an utter disgrace as well.
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Just noticed from Huck's thread a much better example of what the Allies were dealing with, this is his example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_massacre
Originally posted by SMSBear716I think the 135,000 estimate is conservative because the population had been inflated by refugees from the East fleeing from the Russians.
And I never said they were all Nazis, but I think I bet that out of the 35,000 to 135,000 estimated to have been killed and the additional number injured, a good number were Nazis
The whole point at the heart of this discussion was the implied contention that only 'innocent civilians' were killed at Hiroshima, when thats blatantly false. And carrying ...[text shortened]... he effect of helping end the war, and therefore saving a multitude of lives on both sides.
Civilian refugees.
It was murder.
And to those that say Dresden was a military target; why had it never been significantly targetted before? The answer is that the allies wanted to show Russia how easily they could devastate a city and for that demonstrtaion they needed one without prior damage.
Originally posted by SMSBear716Splitting hairs? You said, "...the affected persons were Nazis".
split hairs why don't you..... should we do a poll to see how many were members of the Nazi party at the time of the Dresden bombing care to take bets on what the percentage was?
You said anyone affected was a Nazi, and that still isn't true regardless of you punching blind to defend your false statement.
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